Towards Zero: Why don't my photo uploads appear on the POI?

[Briggs]

EDITOR'S NOTE:

Since Wednesday 30 May 2018, I have started the Towards Zero project to ensure that all my uploaded photos are public, aka depicting that every single photo I upload is viewable by the general public on a listing. You can check how many of your photos are uploaded against those that are actually public here. Some of the photos below may disappear as I continue to find, edit and re-upload photos that failed to attach to the POI.

This post is derived from this post here and a plea of action. I believe that starting a whole post to outline the countless examples where many of my photos never reach the light of day to being published would allow me to convey an issue that is steadily picking away from my contributions. This is the only problem that I have faced for a long time now and has started to grow in concern this year.

What I'm talking about are photos that never publish. This doesn't happen only at the time of the upload or a few hours before, but either months down the track where the photo just never appears. Before, there were probably an odd one or two photos out of 100 that wouldn't attach to the listing and therefore accrue an opportunity cost for views and business representation. During my last batch, about eight photos out of 130 did not attach to the POI.

Despite the fact that recently photos were having a delay of attaching to the POI (about three to four hours based on personal experience) there seems to be a harsher, stricter vetting process that the Google Maps image recognition algorithm or otherwise conducts since I've started contributing back at normal levels and more of my photos are unfairly being hidden/rejected. I keep a close eye upon these photos, and are quite obvious as they could either be a photo with 6 views sandwiched between two other photos with more than 20,000 views, or the listing's would show as an icon or Street View image, not the sole photo itself.

I take into consideration and with thorough testing:

• The photo quality, size (all my photos are by default 4048x3036) and dynamics in accordance with @AnnaDickson's photography  tips.
• Photo representation labels vs listing category
• Uploading environments (i.e. Wi-Fi or 4G) and re-uploading where necessary, including upload location and speed and on different days
• Whether the photo is already backed up in Google Photos or not
• Other examples of similar photos within other branches or within the same listing

Below I will expand upon eight individual and distinct examples where the photo in question has failed multiple times in attaching to the POI.

The Photos

Name: NSW State Coroners Court

Category: Court

Photo Elements: Main entrance of the court via Parramatta Road

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: As this is a government listing, this may have implications where "protected listings" exist. As I have made contributions to the Family Court of Australia, Department of Justice NSW and there is already an existing photo on the listing, this is a contradiction. There might be some concern over the clear image of the crest but in my previous experience this should not be an issue.

_____ 

Name: Wheel & Barrow

Category: Homewares Store

Photo Elements: Shopfront with the name clearly visible

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: No reason why this should not be published. Existing shopfront photos exists at other Wheel & Barrow stores (e.g. Hornsby and Chatswood) following the same sort of photography published by other local guides so the reason this was not accepted is trivial.

_____ 

  

Name: 85℃ Daily Cafe

Category: Cafe

Photo Elements: General layout of the store

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: While another uploaded photo exists with a similar angle, this photo boasts better contrasts and lighting, and no other features which may be of scrutiny to approval are present.

_____

Name: 7-Eleven Plumpton

Category: Petrol Station

Photo Elements: Interior photo of the convenience store aspect of 7-Eleven

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: Mismatch of elements between the Petrol Station and Convenience Store categories. This is a contradiction as a photo of products sold in a 7-Eleven exists in Bondi Junction, as well as similar photos in the Sydney CBD, and my previous contribution following the same principles as the photo above here.

_____

Name: Colette Hayman

Category: Fashion Accessories Store

Photo Elements: Interior photo of the store showing a variety of products

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: Personal contributions of other Colette Hayman stores already exist, including Mount Druitt, Wetherill Park and Parramatta. No clear reasons exists for the non-publish.

_____

Name: Plaza Book Exchange

Category: Book Shop

Photo Elements: Interior showing a section of books and a table of DVDs

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: Perhaps the photo doesn't show enough of the store or the books to attach to the listing? Also the Internet connection within the plaza was quite poor, but all other stores I took pictures of in the same plaza were all approved.

_____

Name: Madame Nhu

Category: Vietnamese Restaurant

Photo Elements: A luscious photo of pho

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: When I first uploaded this photo, I had multiple attempts trying to have it attach to the listing. Even though other photos of pho exist in the listing, somehow my photo never attached. Upon a subsequent eat-in, I took an extremely similar photo of the same dish as well as the dining premises and both photos were approved. Deleting the photo above, I attempted to re-upload the photo again twice but it just wouldn't attach for any reason! My theory is that somewhere during the photo capture or editing process that the photo data may have been corrupted, but this is no indication of this.

_____

Name: 薬 マツモトキヨシ 道頓堀一丁目店 (Matsumoto KiYoshi)

Category: Chemist

Photo Elements: Interior photo of the store in an aisle, a lady in the background

Hypothesis for Non-Publish: The blurring of the customer may not have been enough to approve the publishing of this photo. Customer's faces always appear everywhere though, even in chemists and I have made a valid attempt to de-identify any patrons. This photo was uploaded two days before I uploaded a photo of another Matsumoto KiYoshi close by, which has amassed over 380,000 views. The possibility of representation of this business and the views could have been of quite a large scale, and someone has uploaded their photo to this listing in March.

_____

I know. It might just seem a little bit trivial that a few photos may have fallen through the cracks, but to me I take great pride in the efforts and the lengths that I go through to upload and make these contributions. Checking the amount of photos that are not publicly published or approved, there are 8,020 out of 8,159 photos, so that means 139 different photos are not representing their business or being viewed by the general public and is therefore wasted space/effort. Most of these photos are the sole contribution of the listing, meaning that these businesses only have a Street View image as their content.

But there must be a way to check the listing manually and approve any pending/hidden photos it so that they may be made public and suitably represent their listings. Based on information I've gathered over the past couple of months, I've made steady deductions that these are mainly run by an AI, an algorithm of sorts that oversee the whole process and the upload. Sure, there may be times when it might pick up false positives or incorrectly let a very inaccurate misrepresenting photo go through, but there needs to be a way to remedy the photos that are deserving and of great calibre to be featured and approved into these listings.

So I do implore you please, to consider how uploaded photos are approved and accepted into a listing, as well as endeavour to find ways to revisit these photos that were moderated unfairly by the AI, and release them so they can shine and be of importance. I know this post is long and I don't know how writing up all those examples might even alter anything. But there needs to be a way to address this, rather than just constantly re-uploading them or just letting them go... they're only 2% of my total photo contributions right? That's actually more than it needs to be; and that's steadily growing.

This is the only hurdle (apart from the more-than-average Google Map app crashes that I've been having recently, probably due to an aging device) that I'm encountering as a Local Guide so I'm hoping we can get through this together.

@JeslynL, I know you've helped me address this situation before, but I was wondering if there was anything else you could suggest. @BruceDM, you've also always been exceptional so I'm also wondering if this is something you might help or address feedback with.

Hoping for your kind and helpful responses,

Briggs

EDITED: Formatting, also spelling mistakes

[BruceDM]

Hi @Briggs,

Thanks for the letter.  If there is a trend it would require a deeper dive here as we on the Local Guides team don't directly work on issues with Google Maps including possible photo attrition.  Can you let me know if you are noticing a pattern in your uploads.  Do you see the issue more when you upload a high number of pictures at one time or maybe just a handful/single photo?  Is this something you've encountered through mobile uploads? Through Desktop? Both?

[Briggs]

Hello @BruceDM,

Thanks for responding and reading through. I know it might be a long shot, but I'm taking any necessary steps to ensure the upload goes smoothly. A similar issue been previously escalated by @ArielleM_ as per this post, but that rather has to do with photos not immediately attaching to the listing after upload (usually there is a few hours delay, whereas it used to attach almost immediately). The issue through the link has started around May 1.

The uploading process I go through if I encounter this issue is as follows:

• The photo goes through a quick editing process if required.
• The edited photo is then uploaded to the listing via the Google maps application in a controlled environment (either by a reliable Wi-Fi connection or outdoors in an area the signal is at maximum)
• If the photo fails to attach within about 5-7 days, I deem the photo as a rejected upload. I delete the photo on the listing and reupload the same photo, albeit with minor modifications (such as a subtle crop or desaturation, which has worked in the past).
• If the reupload fails within another 5-7 days, then I will back up the image via Google Photos.
• I access the photo via Google Photos on my laptop and download the photo onto my desktop.
• Then I use the Google Maps in-browser application to upload the photo to the listing.
• Lastly, if I'm bothered I'll note down the rejected photo and listing's detail, make inferences (as above) and continue on.

To answer your further questions:

• The issue occurs both when I upload either a single photo (e.g. 7-Eleven Plumpton), over 130 photos (the first three examples) or even just 10 photos (Madame Nhu) in a day.

So every photo that fails to upload and attaches to the photo (not sure how to use attrition in a related phrase) goes through both the mobile upload and the desktop upload processes. And although a few more are successful after the second round, there are just too many that have fallen through.

[Briggs]

I am regressing to my normal "dear diary" posts for this topic that affects me right now.

Caption: Two shopfronts have failed attaching to the POI.For both of the unclaimed listings above, the Soa Nine hair salon and the Ernest Tobia Optometrist have no reliable photos for any of them, not even a shopfront. Even though both of them are closed at the moment of capture, there are many instances where photos of closed storefronts have been approved and represented the business. Such as the Commonwealth Bank and Ed Harry.

Caption: A shopfront photo of Bangkok Stories, a newly-opened Thai restaurant in Kellyville. This was not published.

Even this photo of the shopfront of Bangkok Stories didn't go through. I inherently know and feel whenever trends are starting to change, and I haven't had this many photos fail through the approval/attrition check like this. Something in the AI approval photo process has changed and it is now vetting my photos stricter than ever, having all these photos never reach the public eye.

Although this isn't like the 'Forever Not Applied' escapade where everyone is going to notice upon first glance, this one is a bit more subtle, and one that I will closely look at and monitor in the next days to come, as this hinders my contributions and will gradually stack overtime. This has changed, and I will have the means for conclusive proof.

[PaulPavlinovich]

Hi @Briggs the best things happen to you eh? I checked a few of those places and agree I cannot see your images. I know its not worth much but I don't see anything wrong with your images, they're better than plenty of others that make it.

Do you only add photos or do you try an edit and add a photo?

Regards Paul

[Briggs]

Hello Paul!

Hehehe, perhaps they do. The best things always happen, regardless of their polarity. I'm glad that you don't see anything wrong with my images and share the same sentiment as I do. I've been conducting a bit of intel around other people's contributions lately over the past month and I have limited data; I mean there are also contributions that should easily attach to the POI but I can't make inferences because I don't know their contribution behaviour between a set period of time, nor do I know whether or not they've had issues with photos not attaching. But doing a contribution check while both logged in and in incognito mode, there is quite a difference and a few of their photos lay hidden.

I only add photos solely, and make edits solely. Based on personal experience, I've found it much more receptive in the past to do each individually to minimise the risk of mixing up data as well as having both go through. I don't see much of a difference though, if the edit goes through, not necessarily the photo will attach, and vice-versa.

[KOBAYASHI_Jun]

Hi @Briggs

I'm sorry. Because I am not good at English, I am using Google translation.

I am experiencing the same situation

It may be pointed out by other users as "It is not a picture of this place" or "Quality is low" other than what it might be judged by AI.

I live in Japan, but plate-like objects similar to "nameplate" tend to look similar in AI, many are not displayed in POI.

Well, there were many pictures that did not improve the situation even if adding a blur to the "nameplate".

In that case, I think it is best to give feedback, report the situation and request improvement.　🙂

@PaulPavlinovich @BruceDM

By the way, if you upload a lot of photos in a short time, will it be treated as spam?

[BruceDM]

Hi @KOBAYASHI_Jun - On Connect, please feel free to use the language you are most comfortable with. As we have Google Translate enabled, anybody reading your post is able to have it auto-translated into their preferred language by hitting the Language menu in the top right corner of the first post of a thread.

@Briggs - The Local Guides team does not work directly in photo uploads on Google Maps but we do what we can to escalate and/or troubleshoot the issues that Local Guides observe. I do believe your issue stems from a few factors that all have to do with the way Google manages photos that enter the Google Maps database.  Even if everything is within the acceptable criteria, it seems the AI still might reject some content.  Millions upon millions of photos are uploaded everyday and it is stands to reason that the AI doesn't catch all offensive or abusive content while also at times not approving perfectly fine content.  As backend tweaks happen, we've seen some great changes as well as some that needed tweaking (as evidenced by your "Forever not applied") thread.

The best we can do right now is work to identify a pattern and to do that, we'll need to hear from more Local Guides and see if we can identify a trend. From there, we would be able to determine next steps that could affect real change.  We'll keep an eye on this thread and reports from others that may be experiencing this issue.

[Briggs]

Thank you @BruceDM for your continued work and hearing us out. What you've stated is probably my guess as well.

I'm doing quite a few contributions these days, and I am still having the instance where a photo will take roughly 2-3 hours after upload to either be eventually approved and attaching to the POI, or being rejected; this has been happening for the past two weeks now and might be a factor?

I'll do my due diligence in finding information, as I have with other users. And when I hear the news that some tweaks have been made regarding photo uploads, I will probably delete all these photos that failed to attach from Google and reupload them to their respective listings once again. It's a little daunting to think that almost 99% of all my photo contributions used to go through and attach immediately, and now I'm probably at around 85%. I'll wait for the meantime.

[PaulPavlinovich]

Hi @KOBAYASHI_Jun exactly what trips the spam filter isn't revealed, however a lot of contributions in a short amount of time would be a possible candidate.

Regards Paul