Photo views as a measure of impact of our Maps contributions

[AdamGT]

I am so glad I found this Post, reminds me of the wonderful conversation, discussion posts we used to have, Remember those @AdamGT

Oh I certainly remember @TerryPG and as you know, I work hard at encouraging connection, engagement and discussion here on Connect. It just makes all this and particularly topics such as this, so much more interesting and educational. In my view, topics like this are just fundamental to what being a Local Guide is all about.

Adam knows that photo views has been my obsession for so many years.

Indeed as it has been for me and of course is the main foundation of the leaderboards, in particular, the photo views and star photos.

@Mikeinthefalls Watching you for a long time has encouraged me to also be more lean and mean with all my reviews and photos, During my (Disagreement with Google) lets call it that, I began to cull a lot and I mean a lot of reviews and photos, It is a bit time consuming because I had over 2200 reviews and 9,000 photos, I have always removed my non productive photos, but how I am doing both. I have removed over 500 reviews and 500 photos. As Mike says Lean and mean is Better( I just made that up) Maybe he can help with my belly.

Mean and Lean…I love it, well when it comes to bellies LOL. I prefer to stick with quality and not quantity

I am also doing a detailed analysis( wow I sound like a nerd) on what I am removing, I will post when I finally finish

I look forward to this Terry and I’m sure it will be interesting. Did you say you sound like a nerd? We wouldn’t have guessed this

I love you contributions @tony_b you always have something interesting to add, I love your Island, found the people there the friendliest and I have always wanted to ask you, is it accessible and cost worthy to travel to other Islands.

I couldn’t agree with you more. @tony_b always adds valuable and well considered replies. As Master at Arms, see if you can convince him to join the dark side.

And @JustJake That podcast had some fantastic thoughts by some of our top guides.

Which podcast is that? Did I miss something?

One more thing The socks are so comfortable and appreciated.

Hmmm no comment

[AdamGT]

Exactly @Rednewt74 , comparing our own numbers to other guides’ is, in many ways, meaningless and this is why I repeatedly say that the leaderboards are more than just about rankings because the rankings are simply based on the numbers! It’s all relative based on geographic location and guiding opportunities. Indeed all of us have a niche and they are equally valuable!

I agree “The more we study each other the better we each will get; in sports you learn a lot when you play someone who is better or has a different approach to the game” and the leaderboards facilitate this. For example, isn’t this how you found out about the photo of Grand Central Station and @shunsader who only recently added his star photo? Yes “in sports you learn a lot when you play someone who is better or has a different approach to the game” but you can also learn a lot from monitoring and analyzing your own performance and approach and this is also core to what the leaderboards and the tools behind them are all about.

We all look forward to seeing your photo of Grand Central Station

[PrasadVR]

Congratulations dear CM @AdamGT for the extraordinary achievement!

[AdamGT]

Thank you @PrasadVR but I have to tell you that this post is not about my achievement.

If you read it carefully, you will see that it is more about how I see photo views and views more generally as being a good indication of the impact of our Maps contributions on our communities and that you don’t have to be a top gun Local Guide, not even a Level 10 Local Guide to have such impact. It’s about adding better “quality” photos to Maps, that have greater benefit to our community, so not for example, selfies or other irrelevant photos.

I do hope that this clarifies things.

[PrasadVR]

Dear CM @AdamGT , I agree with your views, It’s very important to add better-quality photos to maps.

[JustJake]

I agree with your sentiment @Rednewt74 . The benefit is relative to the location. I added photos of a tiny record store that I’d found in an industrial area. The owner was stoked when I came back in and showed him that (at the time) 10,000 people had seen the photo. He’d never measured this stuff before.

I know we oogle the high flying numbers some LGs get, but I think what you’re pointing out is super important. Are we helping a business gain exposure and are we helping users find what they need? There’s probably more photos of Coney Island than I have views of my Star Photo. My picture doesn’t matter, it’s not helping anyone choose to go to Luna Park and ride the Wonder Wheel.

While,I keep @Mikeinthefalls & @TerryPG 's Lean and Mean approach to an extent. I also play the long game, which means I keep certain photos with very few views for places that someone would only need in specific circumstances.

For example, as part of my Trailblazer Badge, I noticed that EV Car Chargers around my area had no photos or details. So, I made a map of them and would swing by to take a picture if I was close. At the time, the audience was limited and specific. Over time, the views have grown, and I’d like to think I made it a bit easier for a traveler to locate and charge. I did the same with a City Recycling Center that was put up in a Dog Park parking lot. I found it extremely useful to have a place for bulk recycling boxes and such. So, I added it and photographed it. Do I mind that photos there have only 1000 views? Nope. That’s a lot of people who likely searched for a place to drop off recyclables instead of tossing them in the trash. Pretty awesome to me.

[Mikeinthefalls]

@Rednewt74 Dude, you doubled your avg views per photo - that’s awesome!

Thanks for the appreciation. I think good housekeeping is just as vital in Maps, as it is in life. I disregard any attachments I may have to that photo if it’s no longer being seen. I’m sure you weren’t happy losing those points, but I also know that you are definitely not doing this for the points. However, if every guide were as involved as you, I and the others in this discussion… Think of how great a POIs landing page could look!?

[Mikeinthefalls]

@TerryPG Me and good ol George Foreman are all about the lean and mean haha

Yes, I do my best to espouse the virtues of a lean profile! Like you, views is my driving force. While other LGs are out there chasing down Edits, or adding roads or searching out places that don’t have videos, I’m researching which POI have the most viewed cover photo. That’s my thing!

That’s a great perk of Maps, different people enjoy and accel at different things. You and I have put just as much time into figuring out how to get that Featured exterior shot every time, just like other Guides have figured out how to add roads (I am not one of them ) Yet, we’re all working to make Maps the best version of the valuable resource it has become to so many around the globe.

I do also believe in having a ba****lanced profile. I’m proud of the fact that I’m damn good at taking exterior photos that the AI selects to be Featured. I’m also proud of the fact that of my 577 photos, 255 have over 1 million views. However, I’m just as proud of the 156 photos I have with less than 50,000 views. As @JustJake has pointed out, there are many POI that simply will never give you more than a few thousand views. But when you can give that POI the same quality photo, that’s a win for both parties! Of the 91 places I’ve added, I think one might have over 1 million views. But most of those make up the portion of photos under 50k.

To jump back to my earlier conversation with @AdamGT … Yes, this gap in views is really my new favorite part of my profile!

It’s great to know that my Adds, Edits, Reviews and etc are having that much of an additional impact. It’s certainly driving me to post more quality reviews and seek out possible edits, while traveling. I’m glad someone else finds it as interesting, as I do.

@TerryPG

I’m glad we have you back, this would have become a lot less enjoyable without ya my friend!

[AdamGT]

To jump back to my earlier conversation with @AdamGT … Yes, this gap in views is really my new favorite part of my profile!

It’s great to know that my Adds, Edits, Reviews and etc are having that much of an additional impact. It’s certainly driving me to post more quality reviews and seek out possible edits, while traveling. I’m glad someone else finds it as interesting, as I do.

Hehehe @Mikeinthefalls , stay tuned

[JustJake]

Not to veer off course @AdamGT , but how are you quoting text? Is this a new feature or have I just not been paying attention? I have not seen this before and it’s one of the features I’d always thought Connect should have.

[tony_b]

Thanks for asking @TerryPG . There are many international people who do not understand island life. Accessible - YES. Cost worthy - NO.

Travel is mainly by air, and the flights are relatively expensive - US$300.00 to $400.00 per person round trip from Barbados to the nearest island St. Vincent which is just over 100 miles away (170 km), and takes 35 minutes approximately. Think of a family comprising husband and wife and a few children, and you can see this isn’t something people would do for a monthly trip or regular holiday weekends.

Much further away is Jamaica at 1200 miles (1900 km). Flight time is just over 2 hours and costs US$1400.00 round trip each.

[tony_b]

@Rednewt74 I’m not complaining about the views, but I still have a difficulty with the concept that my star photo “helped 2,135,733 people find or decide to go to that hardware store”. On an island of 280,000 people on 166 square miles, who are those 2 million people?? As a well-known store in a convenient location, I also don’t think most would need to use Maps to find it, nor to see how it looks or what is sold there. It just doesn’t feel like a cultural norm.

Aha!! I just had a thought. It might be Mr Android causing all this. Whenever I go anywhere, my Android phone asks me afterwards to rate and review the place. This might be the point at which some are seeing the page and scrolling through the photos. That’s usually when I realize existing photos are inadequate and plan a trip back to attempt to get a featured photo.

I note your comment “if I am ever in NYC I’ll definitely try to get a winning photo”. Best of luck to you. I was there a few months ago and did NOT get a winning photo. The difference in a big city is that whatever you upload just lands in a pool of pre-existing photos, while at home I can still find places with few or zero photos.

[Rednewt74]

@tony_b ,

You’ve raised an interesting and troubling question. I did the math on your star photo and that comes out to 1500 views a day., which I agree seems a bit much. @shunsader was just recently saying a similar thing about his Costco photo; that it’s getting at least 15 times as many views as he would have expected. Have 60,000 people really looked at my photo of a bar in our town of 12,000 people ?

I’ve noticed that after I post a picture, if I go back in a few minutes later it can have 10 or 12 or views. There must be some type of Bot that keeps going through Google Map photos and generating these views. Similar to what you were talking about when Maps asks you to review some place you’ve been.

As to Grand Central Station, I really was mostly joking. Some of the photos that I deleted recently were really poor shots of the Golden Gate Bridge.

I’m not especially focused on my star photo; I am much more interested in how my recent photos/videos are doing.

I took a page from your playbook and photographed and videoed my favorite local hardware store yesterday. The store adds a lot of photos so I’m not too hopeful about getting much traction.

I also shot all the businesses (about 10) on one side of our Main downtown block. It made me realize how much more work I have to do in my hometown.

[shunsader]

@Rednewt74 , @tony_b ,

“I’ve noticed that after I post a picture, if I go back in a few minutes later it can have 10 or 12 or views”.

I’m pretty sure that you’ll find posted somewhere in this forum that there are a number of AI Algo’s that NEED to interrogate the photo in order to qualify the photo.

Back in the 90’s, when I was much more involved in the back end of the internet, I recognized that EACH time a photo/file is pulled/fetched, an entry in the web/file server log is made. I’m QUITE confident that something very similar happens today to gather statistics. Instead of writing a file though, it’s probably being databased. Thus, once a photo has been added, Google’s AI scrutinizes the photo, and counts are automatically added to the ‘view log’. Thus, each time a photo is added, I see from 9-12 views after the word PENDING is released, and the photo goes live.

Since I recognize that nobody really needs to see more than one picture of the building face (and more would like to see the goodies that it has to offer…ie, ice cream and pastries, brought to you by people like @Rednewt74 ), I delete all photos except for ONE, in most cases. I keep in mind that 12 views is effectively the starting point. When a photo gets to 20+, and others are still at 12, I cut the 12’s. How long do I wait? Here in the US, I can usually see within minutes if it’s light out, but like to wait an HOUR to see if I have any that are really getting traffic. It’s uncommon, but I’ve seen a photo have 60 views within the first 10 minutes.

Since I’m quite green amongst this group, I’m hesitant to assert what I’ve learned, since my data could be an anomaly relative to the rest. Now that I’ve shot over 4,250 businesses, I’m feeling more confident about my data, and I don’t mind sharing. I AM a true bean counter. Love using statistics to better understand the innerworkings of the system, and LOVE to collaborate, when there’s interest. I could probably make a list of the things I’m still interested in knowing.

NEW QUESTION: I read in Connect last month where it was important to TIME when to submit photos, but after understanding how this system works, I question why. If the photo we publish is scrutinized by AI, and placed in the list of photos BY that Algo, why does it matter WHEN the photo is submitted? UNLESS there are different Algos running at different times of day, then placement should be absolute…and independent of time.

• Steve

[Rednewt74]

@shunsader ,

That all sounds like a very solid approach and similar to the one @Mikeinthefalls takes. In a recent discussion <Mikeinthefalls was talking about inconsistent results when checking views. MortenCopenhagen mentions that there are thousands of servers involved, so you may want to wait a little longer before deciding that a photo isn’t getting traction.

[Rednewt74]

@shunsader ,

Do you remember where you saw the discussion on timing. I know that I am aware of seasonal timing. Late May and June are a great time to add ice-cream shops, so as summer comes on they will be on top when people are hot and looking for the nearest ice-cream.

[tony_b]

@Rednewt74 you’re very thorough. When I first started deleting photos, I wasn’t keeping any records, so I don’t have any idea of the impact during that period. My current approach is to record my total views and number of photos before I start a review session, then record the age of the photos and the number of views of each deleted photo. This gives me visibility into the number of views erased and how many photos comprise that number. Then of course I have a formula in my spreadsheet to calculate the average views per day and the overall average views per photo - before and after my deletions.

There’s nothing organized about my delete routine. Sometimes it is prompted by landing a “big one”, then I say if that new photo got 25,000 views in such a short time, perhaps I can go ahead and delete some of these old ones with just 38, 76, 119, 213, 411, 518 or even 999 views. Of course, we must also bear in mind @AdamGT has an alternative view. He thinks that even a few views must’ve helped somebody a bit, and is therefore justified of its place on the map.

[tony_b]

@Rednewt74 @shunsader I confirm that there’s an immediate 10 - 12 views as soon as a photo is posted, but when I post a video it is only between 0 - 2 initial views. I assume the bot doesn’t like videos.

Regarding your comment about “the goodies that it has to offer…ie, ice cream and pastries”, I actually think the opposite, and it has been working for me. I don’t like to see food photos to the complete absence of photos of the building that sells the food. A certain fast-food restaurant had just a few photos of some of the menu items, and I deliberately set out to get a good external photo, and this gathered thousands of views in a very short time.

[shunsader]

@tony_b , @Rednewt74 ,

“I actually think the opposite, and it has been working for me.” You might have missed my point. I understand that business faces are necessary, it’s specifically what I photograph. BUT, I’m looking at the user experience…from his/her point of view.

I have a 24 year old ‘foodie’ who searches for food similar to everyone else…Searching for “Dinner near me, open now”, then change the pricing filter to $$, and rating to either 4.0 or 4.5 depending on where we are. From there, we read the reviews, and HE looks at the food, and from the way the food looks, and is described, he chooses whether that’s the place he/we should go. When getting there though, if there’s ANY ISSUE at all finding the place, we turn to the photo of the business. BUT, it’s pictures and reviews that got us wanting to go in the first place, not the building appearance. For me, taking a pic of the building and then confirming the location WHILE submitting is what’s worked for me.

I just want to ensure that those interested in going, get to the right place (my making the necessary edits).

With that in mind, has anyone here in LG’s ever considered working together? One does the legwork, and the other does the verification?

• Steve

[tony_b]

@shunsader I just love your 24-year-old foodie, and I’m beginning to understand that’s how some people live. My 21-year-old foodie is much more likely to be grabbing something at a fast-food drive-through, than to be choosing a fine dining restaurant based on “dinner near me” or reading reviews.

As I said in an earlier response, “It just doesn’t feel like a cultural norm”. Our family simply doesn’t eat that way. Here on the island, many locals patronise familiar fast-food restaurants, while my image of the other establishments is “the places where tourists eat”. Not 100% true, and I believe a gradual change might be occurring, but that’s the general picture.

(That’s why I cringed when @AdamGT suggested I start visiting the places tourists were reviewing, to see if I could post better photos)!!