Photo views as a measure of impact of our Maps contributions

[AdamGT]

We all know that we don’t get points for photo views but being keen photographers, many of us are very interested in this metric and we’re excited when we get a congratulatory email, as in the example below, from Google letting us know how many times our photos have been seen and it’s an awesome feeling when we see that our photos are being seen by so many people!

When we think that every single view has helped someone, photo views are a good indication on how many people we have helped and when you think about it, that’s fundamental to what being a Local Guide is all about. It’s not about points or the burning desire to get a pair of Google socks. It’s about helping people make decisions about things such as what places are worth visiting or which meals are worth having.

Well for a number of years now I’ve been studying, measuring, recording, monitoring and analyzing, photo views and not only my own photo views but also those of hundreds of Local Guides across the world who like me are fascinated and interested in this very important metric and that’s precisely what the regularly Top 100 Photo Views leaderboard and the Top 100 Star Photos leaderboard posts are about. I have personally learned a lot from this extensive study and in particular, on how to improve the quality of my photos in terms of the impact that they have on my community.

Now what really fascinates me is that this learning hasn’t just come from analyzing the photos of those top-gun Local Guides having many tens of thousands of photos. I’m a Level 10 Local Guide myself and the above mentioned leaderboards have in fact repeatedly highlighted many Local Guides below me at Local Guide levels even at Level 5, that have better photos in terms of that important views metric. Yes we do need to take into account that some geographic locations, countries and cities for example, offer better guiding opportunities, and hence include places of interest that will potentially yield more views, however, there’s still a lot we can learn from these high quality achieving Local Guides!

Take for instance @katydarhel and @SvenJacobs , both Level 7 Local Guides who each have a photo views count that would place them in the top half of the Local Guides on the Level 8 Photo Views Leaderboard. @MelTG also a Level 7 Local Guide has a photo views count that would put her right up there in the top 3 of the Level 8 Photo Views Leaderboard. And it doesn’t stop there! @Mikeinthefalls has a photo views count enough to place him not only on the Level 8 and Level 9 Photo Views Leaderboards, but also way up there near the top of the Level 10 Local Guide Photo Views leaderboard, and yes, way up above me!!! Well guess what? Mike is a Level 7 Local Guide. There are many other impressive achievers.

I do hope that from this brief post you can see that the Top 100 leaderboards are more than just about ranking of Local Guides and that you can learn a lot from them and in particular from those high achieving Local Guides at Local Guide levels even below yourself. You can learn how to make better contributions and thereby achieve greater impact on your community. Even as a lower level Local Guide you can have a significant impact on your community when you have “quality” photos and what do I mean by “quality”? Simple! When it comes to quality, always keep in mind that when you take photos for Maps, don’t take photos that you like, instead take photos that Google likes and photos that will have greater benefit to your community.

Do you agree that Photo views are a measure of the impact of our Maps contributions on your community?

[tony_b]

@AdamGT I didn’t want to be the first to comment, but after 17 hours and 9 likes, no one has said anything.

I’ve been thinking about this for a while before you wrote this post, and I believe it is true that Maps means different things to different communities.

If we can go back a bit, I remember in the 1980s and 1990s going to England and seeing people use books of printed maps to get around. Then in more recent years in America and Canada, I saw everyone using GPS. Now of course it’s the phone apps. Meanwhile at home in an island community, no one used a map. I know what we’re doing here is not just about destination directions, but also about photos, reviews, and recommendations, but again I think that’s a modern development. Excuse me for being “old”.

I remember asking you if there was a way to figure out “who” was viewing our photos. I suspect that in my island community, the tourists are the main ones viewing the photos and reviews of certain types of places. Other places which cater mainly to locals don’t need viewing for directions, and may not need viewing for reviews, as a decision-making process might not be needed. My Star Photo for example is not of a food or entertainment place, and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be a decision-making photo for anyone wanting to visit that location. Still can’t figure out why it became my Star!!

Regarding local usage, things are changing with the younger generation. My son never asks for directions to anywhere, choosing rather to use Waze or Google Maps to find his destination. I always drive with Waze on because I’m Level 2 trying to achieve points and edits to reach Level 3, and sometimes I use Google Maps simultaneously just to see if they’d give me conflicting routes to the same place. (Maps is usually wrong).

My photos from a visit to another island earlier this year did not perform well. My analysis of the situation is that they get a lot fewer tourists than us and that their local population is a lot less technologically mature. Different community, different impact.

So regarding your main question, photos are useful, but I do not think I have conclusive evidence that photo views are a measure of the impact of my Maps contributions on my community. Like you, I will continue studying, measuring, recording, monitoring and analyzing until I get a better feeling about this.

[AdamGT]

I very much enjoyed reading your comment in reply @tony_b and like you, I have been thinking about this topic for some time. It was only yesterday that I thought that before the now fast approaching end of month hits us, I’d better pen this out and so I did.

To my mind, not counting the emerging video scene, photos, and in particular photo views, give me the best indication that my contributions are being at least seen by what appears to be a countless number of people. Before Maps I had my own travel blog and I also posted on a Facebook page. Yes my friends and family loved this and through my photos travelled the world with me but it wasn’t until I started posting my photos on Maps that I saw the view counts grow exponentially and I could see the greater impact that my contributions were having. It was then that I stopped blogging and stopped using Facebook.

Moving this up to the next level, it was through the leaderboards that I could see the same impact that other Local Guides were having and through this sharing, I learned and am continuing to learn how to improve the quality of my own photos. And, as I wrote in my post, this is by far not only from the photos taken by what I call the “top-guns”, Local Guides at the very top of the leaderboards adding those that add photos in larger countries and bigger cities, top destination locations.

I truly believe that though “quality” contributions, and what I mean by quality I have defined in my post, Local Guides at any level can have significant impact on their communities, be it the locals or visiting tourists, and to my mind, the photo views metric is a nice simple way of measuring this.

But yes you are right, even I travelled with maps, then GPS and now of course exclusively with mobile apps. Believe it or not I even have 3-dimensioonal models of some of the places that I have travelled through (the Himalayas, and Greenland just to mention a couple). Here is one of my favorites, a 3-dimensional scale model of the Himalayas, showing all the major peaks, valleys and tracks etc.

Having been to many islands, you’re most likely right that tourists would be the ones mostly viewing your photos and you will recall that I recently suggested that you might use that fact to sharpen your strategy in terms of what locations to review and photos to take. Tourists might well be your best target audience.

Once again I thoroughly enjoyed your reply.

[MelTG]

@AdamGT thank you for all the hard work you put into the boards each month. It certainly is fascinating to see what other guides are accomplishing and I love seeing people moving on the boards.

Thanks for the shout-out

[Mikeinthefalls]

@tony_b I also enjoyed reading your comment, very well thought out.

I can provide an answer why your Star Photo became a Star - it’s a hardware store! I know, they don’t sound exciting or even all that interesting. However, they get a lot of views. It’s one of the places that everyone in a community will visit at some time, but it’s not as routine as the grocery or even a bank. So, people search for the exact location; the website; the hours; the phone number… These are what drives the views.

I’ve noticed in many towns we travel to that the hardware store gets as many (if not more) views as the most popular restaurants. So you are providing a meaningful contribution with your quality photo representation of Ace H & B Hardware! People from your community see it, daily.

[TusharSuradkar]

Indeed, photo views are an encouraging number on Google Maps @AdamGT

Especially since this is a non-proactive contribution, done without the aim of scoring points.

Superb overview on this topic

As an authoritative voice in the field of photo contributions on Google Maps and its underlying AI, I’d love to hear the thoughts of @MortenCopenhagen about how the photo view count and photo quality any role of any underlying AI has in it, related to each other.

Thanks in advance,

[Mikeinthefalls]

@AdamGT Wait, we’re not doing this for the socks? I was told there would be socks.

First, another great post and utilization of data. You make valid points and support them. Google promotes Guides for earning points, so it’s easy to see why many Guides choose to focus on quantity of photos shared instead of quality of photos shared. The emails and app also encourage Guides to share even more photos! It would be very easy to find yourself sharing a great number of photos and feeling accomplished when you’ve gained 400 points.

However, I like you, tend to look at things from a different perspective. I think the true measure of effectiveness and impact are views. The more something is being seen, the greater it’s impact. This holds true for all aspects of Maps, not just Photo Views. Reviews, Adds, Edits. I think this is why Google started sharing the number of times your Edits have been viewed… To encourage people to more actively contribute to editing.

In fact, one of the aspects of my profile I’m currently most proud of is the growing gap between my total contribution views and my photo views! They used to be almost exactly the same. Now, however, the gap is 14 million and growing.

But this is about Photo Views. My threshold for keeping a photo on my profile is a lot higher than most, I’d guess. Lol. But if a photo is not actively receiving views, then what or whom is it helping? Certainly not the end user. At that point, it’s more of a personal feeling, maybe of pride… You want to keep the photo because you like it? That’s what photo albums are for. Maps is for helpful photos the will aid the person that’s doing the searching. That’s who and what I post for. So, Yes - I agree that views are a great measure of impact.

[JustJake]

@tony_b I still love paper maps. I remember one trip with my Father where we drove from Massachusetts to Arizona and forgot to pack the map. We stopped at a Wal-Mart and picked up one of those big state-by-state books for super cheap. It was cheap because it was sponsored BY WAL-MART. It highlighted every single Wally World store across the country .

@Mikeinthefalls nailed it with your question as to why and who. Certain places are just natural searches for Maps; Hardware Stores, Drug Stores, Mechanics. I was lucky enough to have the featured photo of a Lowes Hardware for about a week and got over 100k views.

Did you listen to @JanVanHaver 's podcast episode on The Truth About Views? It features some pretty famous voices along with Jan.

[AdamGT]

Well said @TusharSuradkar . Unlike points, views “is a non-proactive contribution, done without the aim of scoring points”. I would add that unlike views, points do not give us a real if at all any indication on the impact that our contributions are having on our community.

[AdamGT]

I just have to jump in here @Mikeinthefalls and @tony_b , and say I totally agree with you Mike and I say this based on my own experience.

As you will know, all this Top 100 Leaderboard stuff started 3-years ago from my curiosity about my then star photo which was a rather non-exciting photo of a hardware store. I have to tell you, on checking just now, that photo is still in my top 10 stars, in fact it’s #3.

[AdamGT]

I’m pleased to see that you agree with me @Mikeinthefalls , that the true measure of effectiveness and impact are views!

BTW, your comment about the gap between your total contribution views and your photo views is interesting! As well as the views on the places I’ve added, and the number of votes on my reviews which is a subject you posted about here, I’ve also been looking at this “views gap”. Interesting!

But yes in closing, the “true” Local Guide is not doing this for socks!

[tony_b]

@Mikeinthefalls Perhaps you’re right about the popularity of hardware stores. I have another hardware with good photo views, but nowhere near a million yet.

[tony_b]

@Mikeinthefalls You said “My threshold for keeping a photo on my profile is a lot higher than most”. Could you share your criteria with us? I agree some photos seem to get less views as time goes on, but would you delete an old 10,000 views photo just like you would a photo with 97 views or 168 views? Of course, if the place is closed or no longer exists, deletion is probably the right thing to do.

[AdamGT]

The evidence continues to support @Mikeinthefalls 's contention about hardware stores @tony_b . For some 3 years now I’ve been continually seeing hardware store stars!

[Mikeinthefalls]

Good morning @tony_b I’m always glad to share! Short answer to your question - Yes.

If I posted a photo as a stand alone (say a restaurant or storefront exterior) with the goal of it being the Featured photo and it’s no longer Featured, so long as it has 1 million views I’ll most likely keep it. However, if it’s recording very few new views or if the POI has closed, there’s a good chance I’m deleting that photo. The greater my average view per photo, the higher the threshold becomes for staying. My current average is 1.4M per photo, so a dead photo (Not easily seen on POI) with 500,000 views is hurting my average more than it’s helping a Maps user.

This morning I deleted a photo of a restaurant patio that recorded 272,965 views in a month, because the restaurant closed this month. I previously had the Featured photo at the POI and that photo has 3.5 million views, so I will not be deleting that one.

I also deleted a photo that was the #3 photo for over a month and recorded 19,872 views. I think it’s a high quality photo of the entry and clearly it was receiving views. But, this morning I was unable to view the photo no matter how long I scrolled the POI. That photo is now deleted, as well.

I have a lower threshold for photos attached to Edits and Reviews, more on a case by case basis. Very often I’ll use a photo to verify a new location and get the Add approved, then delete the photo afterwards. That photo is rarely the Featured photo once a place becomes established and served it’s purpose of getting the Add on Maps, so I no longer need it on my profile.

Reviews with a handful of photos have a tendency to be selected for the Featured Review, so I’ll add 4-5 in the beginning. There’s always 1-2 that get a fraction of the views as the others, so when Maps deems my Review less relevant and it receive less views, I’ll delete those less viewed photos. This morning, I deleted a handful of Review photos with around 5000 views each.

If it’s not being seen, it’s not really serving it’s purpose. Personally, that’s my rational at the end of the day. I have deleted photos with over 1 million views on a number of occasions. It’s never fun. But the only person that number really has any meaning or “value” to is me at that point, because no one on Maps was seeing it.

I don’t know if that clarifies much for ya, but hope it does!

[tony_b]

Thanks for the details @Mikeinthefalls

I love these conversations that remind me of the likely reasons @AdamGT created the Country Leaderboards.

After four years of activity, only three of my photos are above 500,000 views, with two others soon reaching there. So you can see my “delete” threshold needs to be a lot lower than yours except in very specific cases.

But all that you’ve said makes sense. I’m going to also start looking a bit more closely at the relationship between my photos and my reviews.

[AdamGT]

@tony_b and @Mikeinthefalls , as I often say, it’s all relative so be careful when making comparisons on metrics such as views and star views! When I have a bit more time, I will try to say more about my thoughts on this.

[TerryPG]

I am so glad I found this Post, reminds me of the wonderful conversation, discussion posts we used to have, Remember those @AdamGT

Adam knows that photo views has been my obsession for so many years.

@Mikeinthefalls Watching you for a long time has encouraged me to also be more lean and mean with all my reviews and photos, During my (Disagreement with Google) lets call it that, I began to cull a lot and I mean a lot of reviews and photos, It is a bit time consuming because I had over 2200 reviews and 9,000 photos, I have always removed my non productive photos, but how I am doing both. I have removed over 500 reviews and 500 photos. As Mike says Lean and mean is Better( I just made that up) Maybe he can help with my belly.

I am also doing a detailed analysis( wow I sound like a nerd) on what I am removing, I will post when I finally finish

I love you contributions @tony_b you always have something interesting to add, I love your Island, found the people there the friendliest and I have always wanted to ask you, is it accessible and cost worthy to travel to other Islands.

And @JustJake That podcast had some fantastic thoughts by some of our top guides.

One more thing The socks are so comfortable and appreciated.

[Rednewt74]

Wow, I can’t believe I just found this thread. I feel like tagging everyone who has replied, but I will resist.

@tony_b , as I’ve said in other posts, we are in similar situations. AdrianLunsong was just saying he isn’t very interested in a photo until it hits a million. For me 50,000 is practically cause for cheering. While as Adam says, we can learn so much from each other, and I agree it is really dangerous to compare our numbers to other guides’ numbers. @Mikeinthefalls , it seems you and other guides ( @JustJake , @TerryPG ) have the geographic opportunity to photograph “high demand” places. But actually Tony you and I do too; you may have helped 2,135,733 people find or decide to go to that hardware store. In the last couple of months I’ve helped 60,000 or more people check out a great local bar. The more people we can help the better; the amount of time or opportunities we have doesn’t diminish the value of our work. @shunsader and I have been discussing recently our different approaches to be a guide (wait til you see his numbers). I admire his dedication to helping as many people as possible and he likes my focus on my small local businesses.

Don’t get me wrong, whenever I travel I do a lot of photography in the hopes of getting a “big producer” and if I am ever in NYC I’ll definitely try to get a winning photo of Grand Central Station.

All of us have a niche and I believe that they are equally valuable. Helping millions of people find something or travel more easily or helping a few thousand find a really good small business Maybe it’s just two sides of a coin.

Regarding what we learn from the leaderboards- I think this is harder to define, because of the differences in every guide’s focus. While seeing a guide’s “star” is interesting, I believe I will learn more by going into a guide’s Map profile and see more of his successful photos and what kind of photos he/she is taking recently. One star does not a Guide make; how many of us think our star is just okay and that we got lucky it ticked the boxes for the algorithm. The more we study each other the better we each will get; in sports you learn a lot when you play someone who is better or has a different approach to the game.

[Rednewt74]

@Mikeinthefalls ,

I appreciate you talking about how you approach which photos to keep and when or if it is time to delete them. Before April, when I joined Connect, I had never even thought about what happened to the 90% of my photos that hadn’t rung up a lot of views. In April I had over 3,300 photos with av views/photo of just over 9,000 and I did some serious housecleaning in April & May. I did some more thinning of the herd recently.Even with all the photos I’ve added for the last 4 months, my photo total is down to 1,875 and my av/view per photo is up to over 18,000. In other words, I completely agree that a photo that no one is looking at no longer has value (in most cases). I lost over 2,200 points, but I’m not the least bit concerned about that; I’m shooting to get back to around 20,000 and then I’ll do some more thinning. By the way my first 500 photo deletions only removed about 15,000 views (yea, it was that bad). @tony_b , don’t be afraid to thin your herd, but really keep in mind what is a reasonable balance for you.

Best to you both,