In my country many locations operate without permits from firefighters some of them even showed at the entrance that they do not have such authorization
Is it fair for these locations to appear on Google maps?
A few years ago a disaster happened in a club that did not have permission from firefighters
Hi @To_paul .
On the one hand, we shouldn’t add places to Google Maps if we know that they deliberate are against the law. On the other hand, it is impossible to Google Maps to check if each business has all permissions to work.
As a local guide, the best we can do is contributing to keep helping Google Maps improving, with reviews and photos, etc. So other users will be able to know what they can expect about a place.
Death from a fire can not be viewed from different angles.
A businessman invests a lot of money to get all the opinions. another does not invest and does not obtain the opinion from firefighters, pays a fine but still works
Where would you personally like to go to have fun @AlexandreCampbell ?
Hi @To_paul ,
I think Google is pretty clear on this. When a business is not operating legally (by local laws) it should not be mapped. So my personal interpretation is, when a business is not legit, because it is not operating under the legally required permits in that country, state, city (under local laws), it does not belong on Google Maps.
Read: Places you can’t add to Google Maps
JeroenM
Following my earlier response, I am of course, not informed about the local laws in your area. One could argue, how come that so many businesses are able to continue operating without these fire-safe permits?
Before you know it, we are in a political debate. It is, however, obvious IMHO that Google is not going to be able to check if every establishment has all the permits it legally requires. Stating the rule that we may not add illegal businesses, puts the responsibility in the hands of the person that adds them.
@To_paul I’d like to be able to get from other users accurate information about a place before going to there (or to deciding not going). @JeroenM raised an important point about places that shouldn’t be added to Maps. However, I understand that Google cannot be blamed if they appear on Google Maps because it would be impossible to check if they are entirely legal.
Hi @JeroenM
The law allows them to operate without this notice. He only pays a maximum fine of 800 euros if he does not have a message at the entrance, which works without notice.
In December, many tourist sites caught fire
I will attach the page from the firemen, it is written in Romanian
@AlexandreCampbell a large number of locations operate without notice from firefighters,
you will not see in any review that these GMB locations work without notice,
I’m not trying to blame on Google for thousands of deaths from fires from different locations in this world, personally I am sadly sad when I see innocent people die @AlexandreCampbell
but it would be of benefit to the consumer if GMB would inform customers about the location of the risks @JeroenM
As you have seen the authorities of my state give the fine to the company if it does not display an announcement with the lack of the authorization to enter
From January 21, 2018, Law no.28 / 2018 for the completion of Law no.307 / 2006 on defense against fires came into force.
According to this law, the beneficiaries of investments aimed at public constructions without fire safety authorization have the obligation to create and place notice boards near the entrances to the respective spaces, with the following content, printed with letters of print with dimensions of at least 2.5 cm. , red, on a white background: «This space works without fire safety clearance».
The obligation to mark the spaces covers the categories of constructions with the following destinations and functions:
I. buildings or spaces arranged in buildings for commercial purposes - bars, clubs, discos, restaurants, shopping centers, shops, supermarkets and hypermarkets;
II. buildings or spaces arranged in buildings with a cultural purpose - theaters, cinemas, multipurpose rooms, showrooms or the like, intended or open to public participation;
III. buildings or spaces arranged in buildings for tourism purposes - hotels, motels, hostels, tourist villas, tourist cottages, guesthouses, apartments and rooms for rent in a hotel regime.
Failure to comply with the obligation to mark these spaces by creating and placing the notice boards entails the contraventional sanction with a fine in the amount of up to 5000 lei.
The aforementioned provisions apply only to the categories of constructions for which it is obligatory to obtain the fire safety authorization, according to art. 30, para. (4), from Law 307/2006 on fire protection, with subsequent additions and modifications.
I see @To_paul . I even edited my first comment to try to express myself in a better way. I understand your concerns, but unfortunately, it is a difficult thing to be checked.
@AlexandreCampbell if I report a location that does not have an operating permit obtained by firefighters, will Google Maps react in any way?
Unfortunately, @To_paul , I understand that Google may not be able to check this information.
I understand that if a place is not working under the law, the best thing to do is denounce it to the public authorities.
as you already know, @AlexandreCampbell and @JeroenM are both correct.
Let say that there is a matter of roles and laws
In my country if a business does not comply with safety regulations cannot operate. If a business is closed, will not be on Maps. This is the main point, if a business can exist or not, according to the local laws.
If the business comply with safety regulations of the country, is not up to Google to decide if a business can stay on Google Maps or not. If the safety regulation are crazy, the country need to change rules and laws, and close the business.
This is sad but, again, it is a matter of roles and laws, and Google cannot be “over” the local laws.
We had a similar conversation (if a business can stay on Maps or not) times ago. Of course here the scenario is different, but the logic remain the same:
Does the business have a physical location? Is the business operating according to the local laws? If so, there is no reasons for removing the business from Google Maps, as indicated by @JeroenM : Places you can’t add to Google Maps
Is this morally acceptable? Probably not, but the subject of the conversation cannot be moral or philosophical, even if I understand and agree with your concern.
Hi @ErmesT
Please stop giving your country as an example.
Your country has two thousand years of democracy.
Your country did not go through communism.
My country has only 30 years of democracy.
In my country there has been widespread corruption in recent decades, corruption has made laws in their favor, politicians in my country are convicted of fraudulent software acquisitions by the Microsoft giant.
Due to corruption millions of Romanians have emigrated
Others die every day, also because of corruption.
Businesses operate legally but over 80 percent of them do not have a fire permit from the fire department but it does work.
Why not ask Google maps for users if the location has all the legal approvals?
How do you ask if the location has access door for people with special needs, or other things,
that I saw that there are all sorts of variants to describe a location.
thank you very much
by the way, most of the schools do not have authorization from firefighters,
and there are schools with thousands of students
the answer to the video location I still did not understand,
what does google maps help the consumer?
that there are some young girls who fulfill the fantasies of some western citizens, that only they are allowed to access the video chat service.
you know this ?
you personally or another moderator if you come to see that location you are not allowed to enter.
just see a building near a park where grandparents take their children for a walk.
I do not want to use my country as an example of anything, @To_paul .
I am on the fire prevention team of my company, and I clearly understand what you mean.
I respect and I love the way you put your heart and soul trying to change something, this is out of any doubt. BTW, actually Google have to respect the Local laws, and removing a place from Google Maps will not solve the issue, if the unsafe business still be open and active.
We can of course write our review, to raise a warning about the place, and may be, if you want, you can start a campaign for increasing the awareness. You will have for sure a supporter in me if you start it.
I was referring to your country having a consolidated democracy for several thousand years.
I respect the functional democracies very much.
But you cannot compare the laws of my country with the laws of west europe, we Romanians are at the beginning of the road, in the last years, the criminal code, procedure, .civil, administrative, customs, commercial, have been modified many times, we are trying to adapt from walk.
Over 80 percent of companies operate without a fire permit, if they shut down, we paralyze the entire system and many businessmen do not understand the need for change and alignment to the west standings.
I do not want the locations to be deleted, but I think those who have locations should be alerted to what risks they are facing in the event of a disaster
The sports hall in my city operates without notice, was designed 50 years ago, and has a capacity of hundreds of people and only a few doors.
You say you are part of the volunteer fire team, I have been talking to firefighters for four years teaching me first aid courses, but I have not received an answer.
The problem is in all eastern states, a Ukrainian user last month reported here on the forum about a fire in a school dormitory where countless students died in the fire.
I did not see the Ukrainian team reacting, but took pictures from Venice.
Do you think that some millions of Ukrainians care about the pictures from the Friday Favorites in Venice?
I say this with the excuses of rigor.
I was mourning for a few days
I as a simple user know that I cannot start any awareness campaign.
Google if you want to find out the real situation in a certain country or area can easily deduce it.
Thanks
Maybe it could be a first step to just give the locations a (bad) review with the notion they don’t have the right kind of permissions.?
That would not be a final solution to the problem, but I know that would at least be an indication to the users and possible visitors that this is a problem. Maybe also a signal to the owners that they should do something about it to get a better rating.
Because I can also imagine that in some countries it takes a while to get the right permits and it would not be beneficial to (newer) locations that they are immediately removed.
I’m not a fan of removing locations - if they still exist - because of missing permits. Maybe they are in the process of renewing their license, but were a little late with it. I don’t see a reason why they should loose their good/bad/mediocre rating because of a possible temporary lapse of missing permits.
So in my post I’m not talking about businesses that actually refuse to get those permits, just trying to bring to your attention that there are possibly some locations that want to do the right thing, but are not always able because of circumstances.
Hi @ndsmyter
Thank you very much for your suggestions
Thank you very much for finding an acceptable solution