Helping other local guides with rejected edits

EDIT: This IS against the rules it appears so please disregard the request/idea. I’ll leave the post up though, for context of other readers.

I hope that this is not against the rules. If so, I apologize and will stop immediately, but I was not able to find anything that said we couldn’t ask for help from other local guides. And, after all, a lot of map edits are crowd sourced so I think if anything this helps to have another set of eyes on an edit as well so since these requests are public I think it will be a good way to possibly get edits done that the algorithms are rejecting for some reason (or reviewers, since there isn’t a way to give them specific instructions as to where to look for confirmation) and this can help to benefit us all.

So, here we go. The idea is if you can’t get an edit done, post the link to the place, your source of proof for the edit, and what you’re trying to accomplish.

@SholaIB here’s my first couple based on our discussion in the other thread.

https://goo.gl/maps/wEsU6PjmHG6SuZ8s8 - Phone rejected. “resort direct” 305-351-0588 phone number at the bottom of this page is the number for reservations at the restaurant (the other is hotel reservations) https://grandisleresort.com/dining/23-north

https://goo.gl/maps/Jv7A9HT7Z5Aq4iWK8 - phone again, 242.524.8889 bottom of this page: https://www.beaconexuma.com/

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Hi @mlepisto

Please be aware that we should only make edits that we personally know are correct. So making edits that others ask you to do is rarely okay. Only if you can validate edits from other sources you should try helping other local guides with this. And edits that are easily validated online are normally approve by the AI immediately.

I believe you can easily get in trouble, but let us ask @ErmesT what he thinks.

Cheers

Morten

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@mlepisto

Asking fellow local guides who live in the same area is okay.

I made a couple of posts that might help you on this.

You may find How to make sense of Google’s responses to your edits interesting since Approved, Not applied, and Pending are explained in more detail.

And recently I posted How to get Edits and New Places Approved with lots of tips that could be relevant for you.

Cheers
Morten

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Hello @mlepisto

Good day to you. I stand to be corrected, but I hardly see how it will be against the rules.

As long as you have the proof, I will be happy to try it out from my ends. We are all trying to achieve the same thing anyway.

I have looked at both links. Done!

Thank you.

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Thanks for the tag @MortenCopenhagen

contributions must be based on real experiences and information@mlepisto . This is not an opinion, but what is written in Maps user-generated content policy

There is a big difference, @mlepisto , between crowd sourcing data and having many people making the same edit and submitting the same information.

The last one is the classic behavior that we have seen in many spam attack: a lot of people making the same edit, thinking that in this way there is more possibility for an edit to be accepted even without an evidence. So we go back to "real experience and information, and the possibility of a digital verification.

Digital verification also that cannot be “self declared”. That’s why the website of the business is normally not trusted (it can be fake) and Google prefer a digital directory instead.

Based on this logic, “your source of proof” is the same that a Spammer would use, @mlepisto , even if I agree that 99.99999 % of the information are correct and the businesses are real. However, the attempt to add fake and sometimes “fraudulent” information following the procedure suggested by you are a lot, so my answer is NO, this is not the right way to proceed

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@ErmesT

Thank you for your in-put. I agree with you on all the points mentioned.

Although, these facts he has produced, I want to believe he has verified them. Otherwise I wouldn’t want to be aiding and abetting any form of spamming. I also will not like to add wrong information to the maps in anyway.

I have have already tried to help @mlepisto on some of his edits,sorry about that. It Can’t be undone. At least we now know, that’s not the way to proceed. Point taken for future reference and purposes.

Thanks for jumping in also @MortenCopenhagen . Kudos to great local guides helping to moderate connect.

Cheers

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@ErmesT @MortenCopenhagen @SholaIB

perhpaps I used the “crowdsourcing” word improperly. I didn’t mean many people trying to do the same thing.

for the two above, anyone could look at the links (which were on the maps listing, I just added them separately here for convenience to explain where the phone number was) and add the information from the website, which should let them make the decision as well, based on their judgement. is that process not okay? that is how I add a lot of stuff like hours or phone numbers (when the algo lets me) based on information from

what I believe to be the official website. Or from a picture in the listing that has the businesses sign, website or phone number.

but I guess that brings up a much larger question: Am I doing it this way wrongly to begin with?

thank you for your help and guidance.

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@mlepisto

The first one I tried was a photo of the phone number proper which was okay. Visiting the place personally is the thing really. I assumed wrongly that there are places you know personally. Sorry about that.

Well @ErmesT has done well to warn us. The POIS has to be verified personally and in person to be sure and correct. Checking their website is not the way to go.

Thank you for your contributions.

Cheers

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@SholaIB these are both places I have been to personally. I know the websites are correct and their official sites, and their phone numbers. It’s a small island. :slightly_smiling_face:

@mlepisto

Well fair enough then. Your job is done according to your information provided.

I do lots of editing so my level of trust is getting credible at this stage now or rather I hope it is. I get my edits approved quickly, I hope I don’t abuse it.

All we are all arguing for is correct and verified information on the maps.

Cheers

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Well, let’s go a bit in deep, @mlepisto

The first place is “A Restaurant” and the website shared in there is addressing us to a “Resort”.

You say that you visited the location but I cannot see a review written by you about the restaurant.

What is interesting is that the resort is claimed by the owner in Google My business.

Inside the resort they also have other services/activities, so the best thing to do for the business (we are here to help the business, isn’t it?) should be to suggest the business to claim all the businesses located within the Resort, and to create a directory in the main business (the resort).

Why I suggest this? Because the procedure of “mass editing” is, as I said, the same used to try to spam location.

Let say that I am a competitor, and I want to change the phone number of the business just to be able to say “Thank you for calling, unfortunately we are already full, we don’t have a table for you. Please call again”. This kind of scam happened already (and much more), and in some case they also have a fake website to confirm their edit. That’s why Google need to find some different kind of “Digital Footprints” to accept an edit.

Also it would be weird for a person to edit a location in a place very far away from where he is.

In the second case the phone number is already visible, bat again, the best option for the business would be to Claim it

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@ErmesT

Sure, I’m up for a deep dive. Here’s a quick summary of what I know about this particular place and some extra background :slightly_smiling_face:

Please accept this with the kindest intent in mind - I don’t mean it to be confrontational at all and want to address your points and bring up further information behind my view and intention.

Beacon is a restaurant at a resort, and it is open to the public as well. This is not a resort like Sandals where only guests can visit their restaurants, etc. Although, at the Sandals here (Emerald Bay) you can pay for a day pass if you want to spend the day there to enjoy everything they offer, or you can go visit the spa for services without the day pass price (some of the locals will go get their hair cut or spa treatments there for example.)

I was at Beacon a few times last year but I did not choose to leave a review. I don’t review all the places I visit for various reasons, especially for local ones here if I don’t have something good to say - this is a very small place where many know each other. I have also taken guests that visit us to Beacon (most of us here just call it the Kahari restaurant by association) by boat. The only access there is by private boat or by the resort’s boat.

I have been there before a few times before as well, when it was called Lumina Point Resort, before it was sold and new owners changed the name. This place is now is owned by the same investment group that owns Peace & Plenty “Resort” (more like a hotel if you ask me) on Great Exuma (Kahari is on Stocking Island across Elizabeth Harbour) which has a pool of something like 70 investors. Out of those, some % (I don’t know the exact number) have invested in Peace & Plenty Resort on Great Exuma, a different % (but potentially overlapping number) invested into Peace & Plenty Beach Bar next to Kahari, another % into Peace & Plenty Island Cottages, again next to Kahari and another percentage into Kahari itself. The previous manager of the resort at Kahari (when it was was Lumina Point) was the wife of the owner of Blu which is now in Rolle Town, Exuma. Blu was first at Exuma Yacht Club, where Choppy’s is now. They moved to Lumina and retained the Blu name there while the husband ran the restaurant and now they have their own location in Rolle Town.

The previous local managers of Peace & Plenty Resort were a couple, who lived a few doors down from us on Great Exuma, whom we met at the hotel and became friends with. They’ve since left to do other things, but this is where I found out about how their ownership/investment pool works. +39 Peace & Plenty Restaurant that used to be at peace and plenty was run, but not owned by my neighbors, who now run a different restaurant here

While they were the local managers, they didn’t have the ability to update their listing, and getting corporate who handled this mixed pool of investors to get it done right wasn’t very effective either.

As for verifying a location here - it is very, very difficult. This was in my first post on this forum, which is why I turned to help from other local guides. I’ve tried to help some people verify their business. There are a number of challenges, but the main one being Google tries to send you a post card repeatedly the first few times. Mail takes months, and we have no local delivery, only PO Boxes or “General Delivery” and by the time the postcard arrives the code has expired. But you can’t request another one or another method until that has expired. Then they want various other processes and documents if you are able to get them to verify through GMB via other methods. Most just give up, especially the smaller businesses. If you were to look at the % of verified businesses here, I would guess it’s a very small percentage.

I don’t think it would be all that much of a stretch to edit a business far away from where I am. I don’t do all my edits/adds/reviews at the location. Sometimes when I travel, I wait until I get home to do them on my computer because it’s a lot easier at my desk for me at least.

I know you said that we are here to help the business, but that’s not how I look at it.

It’s not that I am not trying to help them, but I am doing it by trying to help the maps users - the general public - to help them find these places, make sure the location is correct, and especially here for the phone number to be correct because it really is a must to call to see if they are open or in some cases to make a reservation because it is not fun take your boat or drive by car 30 minutes to a restaurant that is closed because the hours on the maps listing aren’t correct, or they chose to close for a month and that information is only (possibly) posted to their facebook page. You can’t trust that the reservation request via an online method will be received for various reasons, one of them being internet and power outages which are common here. These are the types of things one learns when they live in a place like this, especially when coming from a country where almost everything is more reliable. I am trying to make the visitors (who are used to relying on maps) experiences here better, which in turn hopefully helps the businesses as well.

Visitors here don’t know all these things - the quirks of how things work or don’t.

For the couple of businesses that I have tried want to help, I try to help them through the arduous GMB verification process, but I surely can’t do that nearly on the scale I can with edits, and frankly I usually give up due to the reasons listed as well.

Unfortunately scams do happen. A while back, Exuma Beach Resort for example, had their website which used to be exumabeachresort.com hijacked, and it would redirect to Expedia (if I remember correctly) through an affiliate link so the person who did it could make a % on the bookings. The manager at the time had a huge challenge getting Google to change it to their new website which is now theexumabeachresort.com but I was able to help by contacting Expedia or whomever it was they were using an affiliate program through and reporting them by the affiliate ID in the URL and they shut down that scammers account. It took a few more months to get the website change in Google maps. I don’t think they are claimed by the owner either to this day. You can see my review of EBR was added about 4 years ago.

The problems from these come from the fact that Google just doesn’t have good data here and GMB is very difficult, especially for smaller businesses here. Not so much in Nassau, although they also don’t have home delivery of mail, but at least they have street names and signs. The smaller islands are a very different world digitally speaking, so these “digital footprints” don’t exist in the same way they do in more technically developed areas or countries.

I hope that explains my perspective a bit more.

I’m not sure what you mean by “mass editing” if it is just asking one person to help with a particular edit though, in the context of local guides. I do understand that can be a spam tactic, but one edit would not be “mass” in my view. I understand that it’s against the rules now so I won’t ask for that.

@MortenCopenhagen I appreciate your links to the tips. Thank you.

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@ErmesT I’m not sure what happened to my reply. It was fairly long and detailed. When I posted it is said to click to view it, but it’s not here now. Is there perhaps a moderation queue or caching that might delay this? Or should I just do it again?

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Hi @mlepisto

I’ve just released your long and detailed reply from the spam quarantine. Our filter is working to protect the community and you from unwanted content, but sometimes it can be triggered by something and remove a legitimate post… Sorry about that

You don’t need to write everything again when this happen. Tagging a Moderator, like you did it, if fine.

We are patrolling the quarantine all the time, but a tag will address us in the right way. For more information you can read: Why was my Connect post marked as spam?

Thanks for the detailed reply. What I am trying to explain is a principle, and why Google do not normally consider this kind of Edits. I can understand that in your area it can be difficult to ve verified by Google My Business Profile but, as the resort is already verified, adding the restaurants (I’ve seen at least two restaurants in there) should be easier, because they are basically “services” provided by the resort.

It doesn’t matter if they do not serve only the guests of the resort. This is a very common situation, but I think if they check in GMB they will find n easier way to add their “services” as they are located within the main place

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