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Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

That would be a good idea if I had any friends who were also as committed to ensuring the accuracy of information on Google Maps but currently I am the only one I know who is putting time into this at the moment.

Since GOOGLE Inc. is grading us by levels then surely it would make sense for them to do their jobs a bit better and to at least make some token effort into checking their facts before pronouncing sentence.

Until I had direct experience of this  farce I thought far more highly of Google Inc. as an organisation.

We - who are working for free - are expected to jump through endless hoops just  because some corporation will not take the time to do their own work properly.

If I was not so committed to trying to help my local community by trying to ensure that their shops can  be found online I would have walked away from this mess.


■ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?" ■ "Who watches the watchers ?" ■ the satirical poet, Juvenal ■ 1st century Rome ■
Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps


@markhu wrote:

Try having a friend submit similar corrections and edits. When the reviewers see multiple people suggesting things, then maybe they will see a trend and decide more accurately.


We (Local Guides in Costa Rica) already do this to try to fix map errors. But hey, is this the Google way to build a community? Try to get all the people together and ask them to submit the same things over and over until it get approved or the community gives up?.

 

Main problem with Google is that they don't care about the community. This very frustrating and hardly to understand.

Level 6

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

 

Hi @aka_Rὁn @markhu@juankx,

 

Still, I am thinking why Google, Inc is not responding to our edits, if it is automated then why they asked us to edit the maps, we volunteered our time and to make the Maps better and accurate for the needed ones, but what we get back from the Google??

Each and every one is master in our city landscapes, but the fact that Google rejected the edits. Funny thing. @aka_Rὁn yes you said correctly, my edits were rejected numbers of times.

I already sent a feedback to Google through the Google Maps app, I said that: My edits are not approved, why I am spending much time to edit the maps and it was rejected, I said if this continues, then am not to going to edit the maps, I wont spend time for this.:

 

Sad part I never ever got any reply from them, but I am still editing maps for my fellow travellers. I continuously contribute my time for this at the end_____________???

 

Google try to engage with the community then only maps will be accuracy!!!

 

Thank you guys for the reply.

Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

Thank you for your response.     

The way that Google Maps has chosen to automate its system is less than professional as the update process desperately needs to include a notes field on the form to clear up any potential misunderstandings that a purely automated system cannot begin to cope with.

I have only been using this system for the past couple of weeks and am beginning to look at it more critically each and every day in terms of both its design and its implementation.

I can see no sensible reason for these problems to continue without being addressed by someone with the authority to implement change and so I will be trying to contact upper levels of management to get these issues addressed at a much higher level.      

Enough is enough.

I was fairly sympathetic to Google Maps personnel until I begin to read some of the posting by admins on this forum and the fact that they took the time to look at the past records of regular posters and to attack publicly attack them on the basis that the "system" did not consider them to be trustworthy.

A major line was crossed by this and it also made it crystal clear that those who should be sympathetic to the concerns of the contributors are instead pulling rank and responding in a snarky manner which reflect very badly on Google Inc. and is likely to get those who are making an effort to ensure that the data online is accurate to simply give up on it all and just walk away.

This kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable and it needs to be challenged for the good of everyone concerned.

I wish you well in your efforts to get the individual posts reviewed, especially since the admins are willing to waste time and effort on side issues rather than try to devote an equal amount of resource to both helping and encouraging those of us with good intent who are working for free.

One of the other functions that appears to be missing from the Google Maps interface is the ability to restore a site which was mistakenly marked as "permanently closed".

One of our local newsagents has discovered that his premises have been marked this way on Google Maps and does not know what procedures he must follow to correct this error.

The owner of another shop that I have been trying to add to Google Maps has also been severly disappointed that the addition of their premises has been rejected 4 times already even those I took the time to complete each and every one of the fields on the form - including the various sets of opening hours and a photograph of the outside of their shop which showed its address. 

That level of detail should have been more than enough to confirm that this edit was valid and verifiable.

Nevertheless it was immediately not just once but 4 times !

Responsible admins should have looked into such issues and provide their management teams with useful feedback but it appears that is not happening.

Somehow we need to put these issues onto the desk of someone who is going to take such matters seriously.

...


■ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?" ■ "Who watches the watchers ?" ■ the satirical poet, Juvenal ■ 1st century Rome ■
Connect Moderator

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

For those questioning why Google has changed to automation; there has never been a change.  Google has become what it is now by accumulating information that was never possible to accumulate before now.  They have been able to be the first to accumulate it by using automation to gather what before would have been impossible due to the massive amount of manual labour would involved.

 

All users, the Googlers, moderators, and experts on this forum and the Google Maps forum included, have their edits subject to that same automation element towards approval.  Some manual review is involved, but the tens of thousands of edtis a day could not all be manually reviewed.  Those users have become good mappers by learning the rules and working within them; and many of them frequent the forums to pass that knowledge along.

 

With any system, whether it be automated or manual, there will be false positives.  Keeping the number of false positives low is all Google can do; it will never be prefect.

 

As always, if you wish to learn how to better map you should start a new thread and post details of your edit so others can advise.  Sometimes, though, an edit just cannot be made.  Google constantly strives to make the algorithms better so this does not happen, but what you should remember in the end is that it is the spammers and those that don't follow the rules that make the reviews necessary in the first place.  If you wish to direct your anger somewhere, those people would be the appropriate recipients.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages

Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

Dear @Prabhakaran8,

I have just read the latest official pronouncement which is the same-old line that the system cannot be perfect and so that is basically that.

Other "more trusted" contributors have volunteered to re-post some the reject edits on behalf of others since there will at some times be a need for human intervention.

The issue of "false positives" is basically a non-sequitir since ANY automated system could be improved.

I have noticed that some of the rejected edits are verifiable corrections of obvious mis-spellings of English words - let alone international placenames - and it is NOT rocket science for an automated system to deal with these sensibly.

Google Inc. most definitely has the technology  to handle such  simple issues as it is part and parcel of some of its other systems - including the basic search terms correction and the complexities of Google Translate.

Instead of these issues being taken seriously by moderators it seems that their only responses are basically alibis and justifications of the status-quo,

That is not conducive to an evolving system but smacks of the tired-old corporat  bureaucracy mindset that is entirely counter-productive on every possible level and so "last century".

If there individuals who have a high "trust level" who would be willing to help resolve some of these issues then Google Maps should consider involving them further or at the very least to add a notes or comment field to the update forms to lessen potential mis-understandings.

All of these things could be handled far more sensibly than they are at present and would not require a great deal of effort or intelligence to implement.

So much of the internet has only been made possible through intelligent Open Source management and it is high time for those in charge of Google Maps to look more carefully about what it going on with their system before they alienate their most reliable and dedicated contributors any further.

Please don't accept any more of their puerile and blanket excuses but insist on improvements to their system instead.

That is a WIN-WIN proposal that is of equal benefit to Google Maps, to its contributors and to its users.

The only ones who are likely to object will be those who are pulling rank online and who seem to go out of their way at times to look for reasons to discredit anyone who attempts to raise a serious issue  or make a sensible critical comment.

....


■ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?" ■ "Who watches the watchers ?" ■ the satirical poet, Juvenal ■ 1st century Rome ■
Connect Moderator

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

@aka_Rὁn, I am just a volunteer like yourself, my words are not "official pronouncements".

 

I am quite experienced, however, and from that can tell you that the algorithms and other review methods are constantly improving.  You are incorrect to state that nothing is being done; in fact exactly what you demand has been happening for years and continues to happen.

 

Other "more trusted" contributors have volunteered to re-post some the reject edits on behalf of others since there will at some times be a need for human intervention.

In doing so those "more trusted" contributors are breaking rules.  This would be a demonstration of why algorithms have to be put in place.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages

Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps


@Flash wrote:

Some manual review is involved, but the tens of thousands of edtis a day could not all be manually reviewed.

 Yes, it is possible, the best example is Waze. This forum and the local guides program including the yearly meetup is a bad copy of Waze communities. However, the Google's way to create and promote community work is terrible.

 

@Flashwrote:

With any system, whether it be automated or manual, there will be false positives.  Keeping the number of false positives low is all Google can do; it will never be prefect.

 

As always, if you wish to learn how to better map you should start a new thread and post details of your edit so others can advise.  Sometimes, though, an edit just cannot be made.


 This isn't true. You could post thousands of threads with simple edit examples that are rejected and nobody from staff will care about it. This is the same answer to every post saying that edits are rejected, really, post a new thread if you are already saying and posting examples that your edits are rejected. Is there a way for communities to contact staff to solve map problems in their countries?

 

Some edits cannot be made? Really? Staff cannot fix map problems? How a community could report map errors in a way that they will receive a reply?

Level 7

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

Thank you for the response and the additional information @juankx ...

I have heard good things about Waze but haven't installed the app yet since it is mostly aimed at drivers and most of my work is at a local level (and within walking distance).

Perhaps I should explore some of the other alternatives and at the very least install their app on my phone.

By the way, Google Maps is not the only mapping system that is making mistakes in terms of consumer relations.

Apparently Bing developments have being made without reference to their own community and as a result the majority of reviews of their latest version have been almost entirely negative.

There are a lot of lessons to be learned but since so many multinational corporations have adopted the dismissive and callous Call Centre approach across the board and have destroyed any concept of customer service it may be an uphill struggle to turn things around.

One of the most experience advisors on this forum has said that we need to be patient and wait for someone with a higher trust level to submit the same details before they will be accepted by Google Maps.

That kind of system is far more likely to discourage contributors than to help them  ....

...


■ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?" ■ "Who watches the watchers ?" ■ the satirical poet, Juvenal ■ 1st century Rome ■
Connect Moderator

Re: My edits are not approved in the Google maps

Yes, it is possible, the best example is Waze.,

I edit on both platforms. Waze gets a mere fraction of the edits Google receives.  The two in no way compare.

 

Waze has issue reports that sit for weeks before they are attended to, many of which are then just marked as closed due to lack of details, proof, etc.  Waze also does not have to deal with spammers; people with malicious intent focus on the most popular platforms where they can cause the biggest impact if they get their misinformation on the map.  And the vast majority of people editing and approving edits on Waze are volunteers; Waze could never think to hire enough employees to cover the small fraction of edits they receive.  Google did in the past also have volunteers approving edits, but at a certain point the benefits were no longer greater to the issues that approach causes.  Finally Waze actually uses Google Maps data for most places on their map.

 

What you have done is provide an example of the type of product Google has vastly improved upon by using automation.

 

 

You could post thousands of threads with simple edit examples that are rejected and nobody from staff will care about it. 

To start, remember that this is not a mapping forum.  The staff here are to help you with the Local Guide program.  If you truly want to get into the fine details of the map you should visit the Maps forum.

 

As a Maps TC and former Map Maker TC I can help you here with lot of the issues, as can some of the other mapping experts.  But for that details are needed.  You're complaining on a thread where the poster has said nothing but "My edits are rejected, and I'm local so they shouldn't be."  Even when people want to help, we can't without information.  Yes, a thousand threads like this can be posted without changes, because even when invited most people won't provide details so that either.  Please review this thread and explain in what way we have not helped the original poster.

 

 

This is the same answer to every post saying that edits are rejected, really, post a new thread if you are already saying and posting examples that your edits are rejected. Is there a way for communities to contact staff to solve map problems in their countries?

If you're unwilling to provide details about the edit in order to figure out what is going wrong; no, that doesn't then qualify you to communicate directly with Google staff.  Even if you could communicate with Google staff directly, they would need the same details!!

 

One of my functions as a Maps TC is to escalate issues when something is broken.  If a type of edit that should be approved keeps getting rejected then that fact is escalated; but to get to that point details are needed to ensure that something is broken rather than it being an input error.  Details are also needed so that Google can find the original edit to analyze what went wrong.  Issues in the review algorightms have been identified and fixed via this method.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages