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Connect Moderator

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

Hello @Michael-P,

 

While the Local Guide program and this forum are relatively new, public contributions to mapping has been occurring for years.  The original tool for editing of the map is Google Map Maker, and at one time it was how all Googlers and volunteers edited the map.  There is a strong mapping community built up around Map Maker.  The review system in Map Maker allowed the public to comment on edits to help the reviewers, and eventually the ability was added for Google to designate volunteers as reviewers (initially known as RERs, now known as RLs).  The volunteers are chose for the knowledge of the rules of mapping and their ability to help coach others, and the reviewers have direct contact with Google to be able to obtain Google's direction on how to interpret the rules of mapping and what to do in situations not covered in the rules.  Obviously the reviewers have to have a deep knowledge of the rules to be able to coach and review other people's edits, as they have the ability to approve or deny someone's edits.

 

Basic editing was eventually added to Maps, with the edits made in Maps then coming over to Map Maker for review.  When Map Maker was younger it had many Googlers participating in the forum, which is normal for a new product and is what you are seeing in Local Guides right now.  But eventually Google moved to the Top Contributors system, which is what all mature products have where Googlers rarely interact with the community but instead have designated volunteer Top Contributors that act as a conduit between Google and the community.  With the RER program already in place, for Map Maker the TCs were selected from the top of that group.  These TCs have even more contact with Google and act as the escalation point for issues; but in addition to them there are many other mapping experts that have been doing complex mapping and reviewing for many years.

 

As it is built on old technology, Google is now retiring Map Maker and instead modifying Maps to have more advanced mapping features.  With the closure of Map Maker you can expect to see many more mapping experts show up in this forum.

 

I give you this history so that you can understand what is meant when you encounter a RL or TC, of which I am both, or even just a long time experienced mapper.  There are many of us that have extensive knowledge of the rules for mapping.  I am not giving you my opinion of what is permitted on the map, but rather I am relaying what Google has provided to the mapping community, the volunteer reviewers and TCs.

 

Yes, you can find examples of features that shouldn't be on the map.  The review system is built on trust, and part of the trust Google has placed in you is that you have read and understood the rules of the map as you agreed to in the Terms of Service.  Your edits are then reviewed by algorithms, volunteers and Googlers who do realize that some education is needed, but also operate on the assumption that we should believe the information you have provided.  Because of this, examples of every incorrect thing you could possibly do on the map can be found.  Something being approved or present on the map is never proof that it is allowed; and every new edit is to be judged solely on the rules of the map.

 

As long as its included as a category and you provide a valid name for the place you submit, there is no rules, as long its a valid location or service. 

Other than the "there are no rules" portion, this is basically what I wrote above, but what you are perhaps not understanding is that the only valid names allowed on the map are actual names, not descriptions.  Many of the types of features you are trying to map are almost always unnamed.  If there is a campground along Fire Creek, you cannot simply use the description of Fire Creek Campground to get it onto the map.  If there is official signage calling it Fire Creek Campground then that name is fine, but you can't then name features "Fire Creek Campground Washrooms" and "Fire Creek Campground Fire Pit", or even "Fire Creek Washrooms".

 

But there are definitely rules, there are rules for every aspect of the map.  You mention, though, that you have not seen the rules for mapping.  The rules can be found at https://support.google.com/mapmaker and then they are supplemented in the forums at https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/map-maker.   We more commonly refer to these as the guidelines rather than the rules.  The written guidelines at one time were much, much more verbose; but still need a lot of supplementing via the TCs as mapping is so complex.  They were trimmed as many people were not reading the verbose versions.  For naming a longer version of the rules can be found with the GMB guidelines at https://support.google.com/business/answer/3038177 (open up the Learn More link in the Name section), but these are focussed exclusively on businesses, which of course should always have a name and thus while they stress no descriptive elements they don't mention as much the overall requirement of not using description in place of a name.

 

As a note, most of the rules found in the GMB guidelines match the overall rules of the map, but there can be a few differences.  Also of note, the rules of the map are always evolving; changes are not often but do be aware the older a post the more likely it might no longer apply; there is yet another forum that predates the one I gave you above so there are years and years worth of advice, clarifications and direction available with searches but do make sure to consider more recent advice from the TCs and other experts over older information.

 

I cannot promise you that everyone you encounter will operate this way, but for the TCs you can normally expect us to specify when something is our personal opinion and thus consider everything else to be information we have received from or confirmed directly with Google.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages

Level 7

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

@Flash Oki dooki GregG. 

 

The discussion I started on mapping public places is a idea gathering discussion. And not a request for current arrangements.

I can see you are working hard to provide me a solution to this discussion and outline in a detailed way all the current arrangements. Thats great!

 

I created this discussion to look at new ideas and find new ideas to improve the google maps listing of public services and places. 

 

Ultimately Google will adjust rules of the reviewers and look at new ways of improving the google maps intuitively - so that thousands of Local Guides dont need to carry a giant rules book, but systems are in place for intuitive work on improving their communities maps.

 

Mapping the world has always been the ultimate goal. I've been following google Maps development and where they are heading, expanding mapping further and further.  

 

I appreciate your efforts to outline a very detailed explanation of current arrangements. 

 

Please kindly share your about ideas to help improve the matters discussed in this feed. 

 

Many thanks for your efforts. 

 

Connect Moderator

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

The problem is you did not phrase this as a suggestion to Google.  You instead posted this as a request to other Local Guides asking them to map such features.  You then followed up to say it is currently allowed, which it is not.  And when told it was not you implied that this was just our opinion and should not be followed.  Nothing about your post was a feature suggestion, it definitely was about current mapping.

 

If you make a post asking people to do something against the rules of the map, you should expect responses from the experienced mappers.

 

With regards to your ideas as a feature suggestion, it might be possible in the future; but not currently.  The rules of the map are not arbitrary, but rather reflect the way the database works, along with keeping it organized and useful.

 

Proper naming is required to keep the map from filling with spam and irrelevant nonsense, thus it needs to be enforced.

 

And the way the system works is that if a feature is not named it does not appear on the map or in searches.  Technically we can still approve it, but it really doesn't set the mapper's expectations correctly and might lead to him spending a lot of time adding features which will never show, thus wasting his time.  For that reason most reviewers deny the feature as not contributing to the map.

 

It is a nice feature request, but it would require a major reworking of how the system works, and thus I would not expect it's implementation very soon.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages

Level 7

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

@Flash

 

If you have a look at my original post. I just tried to mention ideas on mapping public places. 

 

I was never asking anyone to do something. I was looking at ideas on mapping. 

 

Im not too good with English grammar. What do you suggest I write in original post for the discussion so it sounds in the correct view?

 

I also don't see you as a Google employee, so I'm not sure why such presumed hostility from you to go straight to censoring.

 

You presumed that my discussion is a command to do something, then you assumed the worst. Could you have first asked to clarify before censoring me?

 

Thanks

Level 7

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

@Flash I updated the original post for this discussion, based on your feedback, so that its less misunderstood. Is that better?

Level 8

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

The features you are describing are best mapped on custom map using My Maps, which you can then set to be publicly​ accessible. As mentioned, these are not currently mappable on the main map due to the reasons described by Gregg.

Map Maker TC and RL, Google Maps TC
Level 7

Re: Playgrounds of the World

Here it is - not mine - but I added a few of these 

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Clovelly+Beach+Outdoor+Gym/@-33.9128341,151.2705781,3a,75y,90t/...

 

I think they changed the categories

 

it might be a sports complex

 

or sports activity location:

 

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Bondi+Outdoor+Gym/@-33.890301,151.281277,11z/data=!4m8!1m2!2m1!...

 

or when adding the outdoor exercise place start typing in category something like "sport" or "gym" or "outdoor" or "fitness" and something will come up. 

 

thnaks, 

Level 7

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

Thats why its a problem, because Google Maps should be the go to place for every location business or public places. 

Anyway, various categories exist and they have been provided for valid places.

You are trying to find something wrong. 

What might be good is for some ideas to improve google maps further in relation to public services. Just as important if you are local resident or tourist. Do you agree?

Connect Moderator

Re: Playgrounds & Public Facilities of the World

Again, the category existing is just one requirement.  If the place does not have a proper name, which means no descriptions, it is not allowed on the map.

 

The Cloverlly listing appears that it might be permissible, as the city's webpage has it listed; but it is still a bit unclear if it is a name or description.  If there is a sign at the gym giving that name then it would be OK.

 

The Bondi Park one has no evidence that it's a named gym, and it shouldn't be on the map unless the name can be confirmed.  If the name is confirmed then the URL needs to be removed; the only acceptable URLs are those under control of the location.

Flash - LG Connect Moderator, Maps Platinum Product Expert, Map Maker Platinum Product Expert, RER and Regional Lead

Due to the volume I receive, I do not respond to unsolicited private messages