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Level 9
Level 9

Re: How to add Statue


@PaulP wrote:

The users of Map Maker were trained, constrained, compartmentalised to the point that Maps became sterile. Boring. Without personality. Local Guides on the other hand can add anything they want.

Sorry Paul but that's simply not true. The same rules that apply to to MapMaker apply to Maps, LGs cannot add anything they want. It would probably be helpful if a senior mapper could explain, hopefully @Flash will chip in.

 


@PaulP wrote:

Interestingly this leads to map wars, I think I've lost count of the number I've times I've edited a particular public toilet that I added it and had someone else mark it closed with me marking it open and they closed and me open and they closed. Someone really hates that toilet.

The way to avoid map wars is to follow the rules that Google sets. It's not that someone hates toilets, it's that it is very probably not mappable. If you are adding features by using descriptive names you are mapping against Google's terms.

 

Paul I understand you run a community and went to the Summit last year? We're all volunteers here and there's an awful lot to learn, but I think Google staffers could help by running some workshops on basic mapping rules, maybe @Corrie could comment?

 

 

Level 6

Re: How to add Statue


Interestingly this leads to map wars, I think I've lost count of the number I've times I've edited a particular public toilet that I added it and had someone else mark it closed with me marking it open and they closed and me open and they closed. Someone really hates that toilet.

Fortunately PhilipF said what he said about Google's guidelines. My comment, without PhilipF's, would be that guidelines is the best solution.

 

There is a place called something like "Tha Place" that I have a question about and reading this discussion was preparation for asking about it. I will create a new discussion for it.

Connect Moderator

Re: How to add Statue

@Pea yes I did go to the summit and attended a couple of Maps forums where I spoke with people from Maps. I also spent the bus trip from SF to Mountain View talking to a Maps person about adding things to the maps and talking about how it could be streamlined. We even talked about how Maps was too constrained and wider public input was needed which was happening via LG.

 

The call to add public toilets was from a Googler on this forum so they're definitely mappable. The original call was to add toilets in India to assist with Modi's effort to eliminate public defecation and on clarification it was added that anyone could add public toilets anywhere that the functionality was available.

 

Can you point me to these seemingly unwritten rules for Local Guides mate? This is the only official material I've ever found https://support.google.com/local-guides/answer/6320846?hl=en&ref_topic=6224587 and it does not have any restrictions or guidance beyond how to do it. Now I'm specifically talking about material for Local Guides - not stuff aimed at Map Maker users as that material is out of date since Map Maker is being discontinued.

Level 9
Level 9

Re: How to add Statue


@PaulP wrote:

The call to add public toilets was from a Googler on this forum so they're definitely mappable.

It's not a matter of Local Guides being able to map toilets in a binary yes or no, in the way that LGs can't map train stations or bus stops. The important thing is whether the toilet (or anything else) has a proper name, because a descriptive name cannot be used. Hence I said above the toilet you've been editing is probably not mappable - because most toilets don't have a name. Can you point to the call from the Googler to add toilets, I can't find it?

 


PaulP wrote: 

Can you point me to these seemingly unwritten rules for Local Guides mate?

Ha, that would be somewhat oxymoronic. I'll certainly agree there is a lack of written rules. The material you pointed to blandly says: "You can add public places and businesses, like a store or restaurant, to the map" It doesn't mention that we can't add train stations but it's a fact we cannot. Many rules are missing, but that doesn't mean they don't apply.

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Re: How to add Statue

@Pea so what you're saying is that yes you agree that there is no written guidance and all this talk from you about rules that don't exist is just so much hot air. Thanks I thought so.

 

Now that you've blown your coffee over your monitor, lets take it in a constructive direction from now on instead of just objecting to what people say and quoting "the rules" all the time. Put yourself on the receiving end of your post before you make it and ask how it makes people feel. Yes I know I'm being hypocritical now because this post is going to make you feel bad. Oh well. C'est la vie.

 

Thanks

Former Google Contributor

Re: How to add Statue

@PaulPavlinovich @YaserA @Pea @SamuelCalifornia @carmenara

Let's all remember that we are on the same side - the side that wants good and correct information on the Map. Map Maker mappers are amazing people who often know more about Google's changing policies and evolving contribution types than many Googlers. It is true that mappers have historically been focused on what we might call "factual" edits and Local Guides came from a more subjective area (reviews and photos), but now we are all one community who continue to share the same goal: a helpful and accurate map. As we improve Google Maps as a product, turn down Map Maker and expand the ways Local Guides help put the world around them on the map, you will see even more changes (hopefully good ones!) 

 

For those of you asking for more focus on mapping from Local Guides, stay tuned - we've got some cool thing in the works. I also ask for your patience as our products change and evolve - and by necessity our policies and guidelines. For example, we worked with the government in India to map public toilets as it was a humanitarian and culturally specific need. We don't have the same approach in all countries. 

Level 7

Re: How to add Statue

I honestly think the water closet mapping could benefit people of other countries as well. 
What if I ate some strange oriental delicacy this Chinese New Year and needed to make a beeline to the nearest public toilet? Some shopping malls have floor plans shown in Google Maps but no one has ever thought to map the toilets yet. 

Whipping out the phone to check where the toilet is will definitely be quicker than trying to locate a directory or information counter to check where the toilet is...

 

Hehe...

A Lost Sheep in Delhi
https://lostsheepdelhi.wordpress.com
Level 9
Level 9

Re: How to add Statue

Hey @Corrie that's really great and I'm glad you were able to draw the distinction between the Indian toilet project and toilets in general.

 

As I said up the thread us LGs are all volunteers here and there's an awful lot to learn, I've been mapping via MapMaker since 2010 and, despite picking up a few things, there's plenty I don't know! If you are able to add a cautionary comment to phrases like 'Local Guides on the other hand can add anything they want' it might help us all map more effectively and avoid heartache further down the line.

Former Google Contributor

Re: How to add Statue

@Pea I'm always hesitant to guess at what other people intend or mean. But I know @PaulPavlinovich is an amazing Local Guide and don't think he would be implying that Local Guides can literally "add anything they want" -- otherwise we would have Pokemon Gyms and people's houses all over the map 😉 

Connect Moderator

Re: How to add Statue

Thanks @Corrie I know and understand that Google want Map Makers and Local Guides to be "on the same side" but to be honest we're a long way from that utopia. Too many times I've either had Map Makers talk down to me or I've intervened in similar things happening on other LG posts here and on the plus that Google really need to level the field. We've got one group who are losing the tool that they've loved using for some years and have enjoyed a position of respected power. Many of them are upset that Map Maker is going away. They're upset that they've been placed into the same space as Local Guides who would have been seen as users of the map rather than contributors. That world is now changing and both are inhabiting the same space and are using the same tools. It's likely that LG do actually need more guidance. As much as I pushed the limits with @Pea before for good reason (well I think so, he probably does not) there actually does need some guidance material produced and training provided for those that want it. While we only met briefly at the summit and have had limited chats, I hope you know me enough to know that I'm stirring the pot to make it better and not just for the sake of it.

 

Regards

Paul