Category: Cave (exists but not available and no opening hours)

[JeroenM]

Hi, I a travelling currently in the North of Spain and have recently visited a number of very important caves. I have noticed that perhaps one of the most important ones from an archaeological point of view was labelled with the category Tourist Attraction.  Not far from it, is another famous cave, that had the category "Cave". I observed the following:

1. The category Cave was not available to me, when I tried to change the Tourist Attraction into the right category. I didn't think Archaeological Museum was appropriate, or is it?
2. The category Cave doesn't seem to have opening-hours as an option. These caves do have opening hours like any other museum would have.

The tourist attraction category does have opening hours of course, but surely this is not the appropriate category for what is in fact one of the most important archaeological sites of its kind in the world.

How to proceed?

Thanks,
Jeroen

[AnuradhaP]

@JeroenM Many categories that were available on Google Map Maker is not available in Google Maps. You may have to wait some time until Google Maps add these categories. 

[JeroenM]

Hi @AnuradhaP
Thank you for answering my question. I shall just have to remember to look into it again in the future, when things have changed.
However, the one that does have cave as category, does not allow for opening hours. Do you recommend I report this missing opening hours issue for this category in Maps?

Thanks.
Jeroen

[Flash]

Caves are natural features, which is a subset of categories not available for editing in Maps.

Natural features do not have opening hours; opening hours are for businesses.  It is not a mistake that the hours do not exist.

[AnuradhaP]

@JeroenM As @Flash mentioned normally Caves are natural features and they do not have opening hours. Is the cave you are referring is a tourist attraction or controlled access to the cave? Then the issue is different. @Flash in such case what can we do? Can we mark this cave as a tourist attraction? In Sri Lanka also there are tourist attractions like this.

[JeroenM]

@Flash @AnuradhaP

Thank you for clarifying the Cave category. It is consistent, with other natural features like mountains, rivers and canyons. I do note though, that the cave that has the cave category, does have a phone-number and website! Never knew, one could call a cave. These are of course the contact details of the business (government in this case) that protects and manages the cave.

In response to Anuradha, I personally find Tourist Attraction not a correct category. In that case, I find archaeological museum much more appropriate. We are talking here about cave art and findings dating back 40,000 ago. When the first of our kind added art to these natural caves, it was indented as what we now would call a church or a ceremonial sacred place. It was never created for the sake of tourists. Even the replica (neo) caves in France, like the famous Lascaux cave, is too scientific and museum like, looking at replica art, I find tourist attraction inappropriate.

So to conclude, I leave the Cave for what it is, but add the museum to the same location, so I can add the opening hours and details where to book tickets. The other Cave, managed by the same government agency, I would like to change from tourist attraction to archaeological museum and I shall report to Maps, that there is a natural feature "cave" missing on the map.

Jeroen
 

[Flash]

@JeroenM, are you creating a second feature with the exact same name as the cave?  That would be creating a duplicate, and is not permitted. 

If I'm misunderstanding please do explain in more detail.

[JeroenM]

 Hi @Flash,

Now, I am even more confused.

As by your own definition one is a natural feature and the other is a "business",  they cannot be each other's duplicate. Your response suggest  the issue would be having the same name.

That also makes no sense, as there are many places in the world and on maps having the exact same name close to one another e.g. "Niagara Falls" could be a waterfall, a bar, a nightclub, a bus stop or station.

What does make sense if there was a rule that says one thing can only have one listing. In that case also following the guidelines from our LG team, I should change the cave category into 'archaeological museum' and thereby have one listing.

The cave I m talking about is a hybrid of a natural feature and a "museum". It is only accessible during business hours with a guide and a ticket, has artificial lighting, stairs, etc. as is common all over the world.

The reason I started this thread in the first place, is that Google doesn't seem to have a category for a this kind of hibrid.. a cave with opening hours, guides, etc.

Just saying in response to my issue that caves are natural features and therefore do not have opening hours, which is clearly not true, doesn't help my dilemma.

Given this additional information, what do you suggest?

Thanks.

Jeroen

[LucioV]

@JeroenM i suggest to you to create another POI, listed as Museum, leaving untouched the geographical POI.

I'm pretty sure i saw some samples of this configuration.

Grotte di Frasassi: https://goo.gl/maps/7sKRRYdvrmS2 (physical place, geographical POI, listed as attraction...)

Grotte di Frasassi Parcheggio e Biglietteria: https://goo.gl/maps/F1K9zZXViaA2 (commercial POI, listed as attraction)

Museo delle miniere di Predoi: https://goo.gl/maps/c5kgEitgCZx (listed as mine)

[Flash]

I apologize if that was not clear.

I did not mean that features cannot have the same name.  Yes, you can name a nightclub after Niagara Falls.  But that's the important distinction; that they are two separate things that happen to share a name.

What I meant was that you cannot have two POIs to represent one feature.  That applies even if the names are different.

I was trying to ask if there was perhaps an official museum separate from the caves.

What does make sense if there was a rule that says one thing can only have one listing. In that case also following the guidelines from our LG team, I should change the cave category into 'archaeological museum' and thereby have one listing.

---

The category to be used is the one that best represents the feature.  This is a cave over everything else, and thus the category should not be changed.

But your additional description has clarified this a bit more.  If this was just a cave, but it had limited hours that people could explore it, that would be something that could not be mapped beyond the cave POI.

What you are describing; specifically a portion of the caves that have archaeological drawings that form a museum like display, does sound like a separate feature from the cave itself.  If the cave is known as XYZ Cave, I would not be surprised if the official name of the museum portion is something related but more complex.

The equivalent would be a business within a named building; perhaps the Empire State Building with a Subway restaurant within it.  Both the restaurant and the building belong on the map.  But we would never map the business "Walmart" and also name the building "Walmart".  In this case the cave is the building, and as it's named that name should be applied to the cave.  Is there any way to find out the full, proper name of the museum portion so that it can be clear that it's not a duplicate?

If the museum portion doesn't have a separation from the caves like I'm mentioning then it might be a case where I'll have to check with Google as to whether there are any options to add anything other than the caves.