Recommendation for Street View camera and "invisible" tripod.

[SteinArneJ]

Hi!

So far all my 360 spheres have been shot with my Iphone 5s and the Google Street View app - and because of bad stitching, I’ve had to shoot many of them more than once.

So I’m looking for a reasonably priced 360 x 180 degree camera. The Ricoh Theta S looks like a good idea - even the price, but I would love to have a camera with at least the same picture size as the street view app (8704 x 4352 pixels).

If the Theta S is the only “low cost” solution available, what kind of tripod or stand could be used for it to be invisible on the photo.

What about stands for other 360 cameras?

Thanks for reading this!

Stein, from Norway

[Jerardcans]

yo tengo el mismo problema y aunque creo que se debe a la calidad del telefono espero una mejor respuesta asi como usted SAludos!!

[Csaba]

Hi @SteinArneJ ,

I use a Samsung Gear 360 camera which has a resolution of 7776 × 3888 pixels. Not exactly what you mention but at least not far. Here’s an album to show what pictures it takes and here is the virtual tour I created with those images. Note that I was walking about in town when I suddenly decided to go in there and shoot the images so I did not have a tripod just a monopod with me so I am squatting at the bottom of each photo sphere.

I also have a tripod with a spirit (or bubble) level and a relatively small head. Originally it’s a tripod for macros and its legs are not connected so it can be set up on any uneven ground easily as I can move (bend out) the legs independently. Here it is (some stock photo):

Now on top of this, I add a selfie stick which has a thread at the bottom in order to “elevate” the camera way above the tripod. Here is the selfie bot:

And here it is mounted on the Gear 360’s own, small tripod (which is about 8-10 cms high):

Now this selfie bot won’t be visible on the photos but the tripod, though very small and not intrusive at all, will. Here’s a (now planned) virtual tour of a small church I made with this equipment and method.

I am afraid there won’t be a completely “invisible” tripod but if you are very keen, you can edit the image and with a clone tool, make it completely disappear or add a logo at the bottom (this is allowed just make sure it’s not too large). Here is a free online tool with which you can add (and size) a logo. The Gear 360 comes with its (optional) logo, too, but changing that to yours (or your client’s) is rather cumbersome.

Well, if you have more questions, I’d be happy to answer and I am sure others have some further, great advice, too.

[MoG]

I’m using a theta s and I’m loving it…every image is accepted by maps and my clients love it…

[SteinArneJ]

Hola @Jerardcans !

Lo siento si mi español es un poco limitado.

Mi problema no es el nitidez de los fotos del teléfono, aunque un teléfono (mas que cámaras de calidad) necesita buena luz para tomar buenas fotos!

La problema más serio para mi es tener que tomar 44 fotos para hacer un globo/esfera. También me molesta que es casi imposible hacer globos buenos con líneas rectos muy cerca. El “stitch” siempre es malo. Por eso no puedo tomar este tipo de fotos dentro de edificios. Utilizar trípode no cambie nada.

En aire libre el resolución del app (8704 x 4352 pixeles) dame muy poco detalles a cosas en la distancia. No puedo hacer suficiente de zoom para poder ver lo que quiero.

Mi teléfono iPhone 5s tiene un resolución de 2448 x 3264 pixeles. Si Usted tiene otro teléfono con resolución diferente - es la resolución de sus globos/esferas diferente que los míos (8704 x 4352 pixeles)?

[SteinArneJ]

Thanks for your replies @Csaba today!

I have checked up the Samsung camera - but using an iPhone 5s I do believe it’s not compatible.

Combining a tripod with a selfie stick seems like a very good idea to get more distance to the tripod!

I think I would be very nervous to leave anything of value on a setup with as little diameter as the one you show in your third photo

In a church it may work, but what if there was a little wind?

I do agree that your tripod isn’t very intrusive on the photos. However the tripod I trust and use is MUCH bigger!

I have seen one very good solution for adding a mirror ball to the bottom of the photo to hide the tripod. It’s taken in our local church: Tripod mirror ball.

I contacted the photographer but he said he didn’t remember how it was done. I guess he just didn’t want to share the information.

I would LOVE to find out how it’s done though!

Again - Thank you!

My local guides profile

[SteinArneJ]

Hi @MoG !

Would love to see a link to your Theta S photos!

[SteinArneJ]

One more thing @Csaba :

I’d love to learn how to make virtual tours. You shouldn’t happen to have a link to a guide?

Thanks

Stein

[Csaba]

Hi @SteinArneJ ,

That mirror in the nadir is indeed cool. Maybe it could be done with a so called “little planet photo” added as (or instead of) a logo.

Here is what the Help Center says about connecting photospheres:

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7011737

I am planning to create a tutorial myself (maybe a video tutorial or one with screen shots) as some local fellows also asked for it. It’s not hard at all, you just need to get the hang of it.

[SteinArneJ]

Thanks again @Csaba !

I found an incredibly easy way to make these nadir mirror balls in photoshop. This YouTube video is recommended to everyone. I haven’t tested it myself yet, but it looks really easy!

I hope you find time to make a video tutorial. I find them so much better than written info for acquiring new knowledge!

Before I start on a project like this I must find a faster and easier way of creating spheres than to shoot 44 photos in the Street View app for every single one!

I’ve seen some good and many really bad spheres shot with the Ricoh Theta S - and I do need something compatible with my iPhone 5s.

Also if I want to shoot indoor spheres I will need a real 360 camera. Using the phone and the app simply isn’t good enough.

Stein

[PatricL]

The mirror ball is done from a virtual tour program Pano360, I had it before but it didn’t do a very good job so I dumped it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPatH1ng1dg

In the 360° snapper world, Theta S rules.

This doesn’t say it takes great pictures, it just better then the competition.

GEAR 360, Nikon Keymission, LG 360, Panono, just to name a few.

What kills the pictures of a Theta, is the dynamic range and a bad photographer.

Competitors are even worse, bad stiching, not to mention that they lack leveling horizon, that is a killswitch for an “action 360° camera” purchase.

Action 360° cameras are not ment to have a leveling horizon, and therefor is not suited for a VT.

Walking in a tour where horizon is leaning in every direction is a nightmare.

Or step up into the world of DSLR if you want quality.

Here is a tour I made yesterday for less then 10 real minutes with a Theta S on a Microphone boom and a mini light stand.

Photos was taken at 18:30 and at 19:20 tour was live on google maps, today at 15:00 it was connected to google street view.

If that is fast enough for you.

And yet again, owner didn’t want door open and more then pleased with the quality of the Theta S.

[JoeCullity]

I’m currently using the LG-360 camera. It just makes the specs for Street View, but all of the people I’ve done 360 tours with seem very happy. My main complaint is that it dose not look very professional. That said… I keep hearing rumors of newer better equipment coming out, so for now I’m planing on holding onto my money for a few months to see whats available this November.
As for 360 Tripods. You are correct. One slight gust of wind (even a small breeze) and over the tripod goes. Sometimes I carry 3 bricks with me and put one on each leg (barely viable in photo spheres).

If you want to see what the LG-360 can do. Here’s a link to some tours I shot with it. Seems the Pharmacy was (Automatically?) edited and has problems, but don’t want to play with it till after the new editor comes out at the end of March.

[PatricL]

Wow, what a nasty tripod head you got there!

You also have this strange funky connections that appear after 24h or so.

It usually happens when tour is connected to street view for me, but it could be a coincident.

To avoid falling tripods, I use a mini light stand, it ads 650g and enough stability for a 2 meter high 360° camera.

And if that’s not holding up, I always have my 3.6 meter light stand in the back of the car, at 2 meter not even a hurricane can make it tip.

No need for sandbags or rocks.

I use light stands as they don’t have a plate on top, pole fit’s perfectly inside cameras stich area, only legs are shown on pictures.

No need for ball head, as Ricoh has a self leveling system, you can have stand leaning 10° (0r 180°) without anybody will notice it.

How is it with the LG 360, is it the same there?

I downloaded and took a 500x500 crop out of one of your spheres to compare with competition.

Hope that’s ok Joseph, think of it as a scientific experiment.

Here you can compare LG360 16MP with the Panono 136MP, and Ricoh14.5MP in sharpness from the original file and about the same distance.

Crop is taken from center of picture from all 3 photos.

I don’t know about you, but I see a clear winner here.

First pic HDR at ISO 100, second pic, unknown mode and ISO 50, third pic HDR and ISO 100.

Anybody with a SM-C200 that can take a center 500x500 crop for us to compare with?

[Csaba]

That selfie bot mounted on top of the Gear 360’s own, small tripod was just a demonstration. Of course, I never use that in production but mount the selfie bot on top of my “normal” tripod. It has a hook under the head and I can hang anything heavy on it in order to make it more stable (in case there is a hurricane

[JoeCullity]

Hi Back. As for the Tripod, it was replaced long ago, I need to update the samples, just haven’t gotten to it yet.

As to resolution, you are correct the sample on the right is much better, BUT dose it matter ? Most people I see using the 360 tours are on their cell phone, wanting to check out the inside of a couple of restraints to decide which one they want to go eat in. Even the 14meg pictures have more then enough resolution then they need, and all of my customers see quite happy with the picts. Their main complaint is that some of the pictures don’t link up correctly in the virtual tours. Hopefully once the new editor comes out at the end of March I can fix this. So, as for me, 1 - Placement and lack a new editor for laying out the 360 tours is a much larger problem that resolution and… 2 - I keep hearing rumors that a lot of new / better equipment should be on the marker by years end. 3 - My customers are happy with sharpness at current levels… I’ll keep what I have,at least until early next year and see what’s available then…

[PatricL]

On a phone everything looks good

I think this is the reason why many complain about the quality of pictures that are uploaded to google maps.

Many don’t double check them on a PC/Mac first.

If they did, many pictures wouldn’t reach google maps.

@JoeCullity have you noticed if your camera is leveling horizon, or is it your job to fix that?

Thread is about a good street view camera, this is why I did the crop compare.

Funny part is that the oldest camera with lowest resolution is so much sharper then the others.

If this trend keep on going in that direction, I’m not sure I want a new 360° camera.

In the DSLR world it’s a big fuzz about the high MP in new cameras, many complain that lenses ain’t sharp enough.

Think this is what we start to see in the 360° world now as well.

Pictures get distorted and need to be seen on a greater distance, or on a phone as you say.

Or the PC/Mac is just an obsolete device in the near future.

[JoeCullity]

Two more thoughts on resolution and file size. The LG 360 shoots a 16 megapixel image, that after jpg stores as a bit over a 5-megapixel file. (I always save with best image quality.) If I shoot 15 photo spheres to do a tour, that comes to about 75 megabytes of data that I have to hand over to the customer or store in my own drive space. If I double the resolution then the storage space is going to go way up. More important than that, if I’m using a mobile device even downloading a 5 megabyte file, can take a couple of seconds and jumping from one picture to the next really slows down as the files get larger.

[PatricL]

@JoeCullity Earlier you said sharpness doesn’t matter.

You will see that it does, hang on and I will explain.

I’m shooting with Theta S, FX and DX cameras, and sometimes even with crop 2.7 to get insane spheres.

File size is about the same for all spheres 2-5MB, except the 2.7 crop as they become + 200MP and need about 15MB in size to hold all the information.

(I see that most tutorials want you to crank compression up to 97% of a sphere when manually stiching it, that is not needed at all, but helps if picture is a full of details.)

JPG can compress a more sharp and clear image better and with higher compression ratio without loosing quality.

The more noise you have in an image, the less JPG can compress and you also have to crank up the % to 80 or more to not lose quality.

You can test this yourself, create a white image, same size as your sphere is, compress it at 50% with a photo edit program.

It’s a 14.5MP 53KB white image below here. Scroll…

Take a sphere photo and do the same. Notice the size difference after compression.

The white one should look the same and become quite small in file size 53KB in my case,

while the sphere(original 3950KB) should still be quite big 906KB(at 25%) and now even a bit chunky in the graphic.

Surprisingly my demo failed somewhat, but was a success in another thing. Even at 25% it looks really good.

I cranked it down to 10% and 513KB to get the chunkiness I needed for this experiment. Still it didn’t reach the white image in file size, it’s still 10 times larger at 10%.

This file will show a diner good enough on your phone.

To answer your question about sharpness, yes, it really matters.

What you gain from a sharp image is: Smaller size, faster download and it looks better.

Your 15 sphere tour could be 7.5MB if it was sharper and compressed.

Here we have data plans for our mobile devises, 100MB(3$), 300MB, 1000MB and 3000MB(expensive).

With the 100MB plan I could look at 13 sharp and compressed tours per month.

300MB plan I could look at a tour per day and still have some surf left in my phone.

Your viewers would need a 3000MB plan to be able to do the same.

Hope this experiment was educational

PS, I tried a few low compressions in PTGui for 50MP spheres, managed to get 1MB files that was still looking good and sharp.

[SteinArneJ]

Thanks @PatricL for a lot of useful info.

Nice tour as well! I hope to be doing similar things where I live and places I visit soon. The Theta S looks good enough for me!

I haven’t had time to check every photo of the tour in every direction. So my question are:

Where do you hide?

Do you leave the stand with the camera alone in the middle of the street?

Have you edited the nadir point of the photo to remove the stand?

I have a carbon tripod with hook for extra weight I intend to use, but would like to mount a stick of maybe 1m on top of it.

Do you know what’s available (preferably lightweight and telescopic)?

I have spent a lot of time thinking about possible solutions for a “hiding place” under the Theta.

What do you think of mounting something like a round disc, maybe 6-7cm or more, and maybe something mirror-like, between the Theta and the head?

Depending on the diameter of the “disc” it should give plenty of space even for a person holding the stick, right?

I have no idea how it would look though, but if it works, couldn’t you then skip the whole stand and hold the stick yourself?

Would it be possible to take several shots from a single spot, with different settings, and combine in an HDR on the computer?

If so, it would be interesting to know what resolution the actual photos on Google Street View have - if Google reduce the resolution of big photos or not. If they do and you are able to take sharp shots with the Theta - I can’t really see how the use of DSLRs will pay off in extra quality.

[SteinArneJ]

Thanks again @PatricL . Good post!

Where can I get a 2 meter or longer “stick” with with a 1/4" (?) “nut” in the bottom that can be mounted on a tripod head?

You say the Theta S is self-levelling? So this means, my only worry will be to set up the tripod/stick combo vertical enough to avoid that it falls?